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[Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Salamandra » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:23 pm

Saying "2 on heroic is more than 3 on normal" isn't a great reason to switch at 2, since 3 on normal isn't much at all. I'm skeptical 3 tanks is required.

Hmmm... if you had 2 tanks, with the duration being 5 seconds longer, would you need to take 4? If so, maybe 3 is a fair bit better.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Boèndal » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:41 pm

What about disarming him about 2-3 seconds after every third impale. Should give enough time to let the dot go off the other tank and avoiding you getting a fourth one.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby PsiVen » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:18 pm

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=67479

25-man Heroic Impale:
Inflicts 150% of weapon damage to an enemy and causes it to bleed for 3938 to 5062 damage per application every 2 sec. for 45 sec.

Snobold buffs: 15x5 = 75% buff.

So 3 stacks of Impale add up to 5062x3x1.75 = 26576 ticks every 2 sec. The 4th application would definitely kill you.

2 stacks add up to 17717 ticks, which will be painful if they line up with ~20k regular melees and potentially deadly on the 3rd Impale. If Disarm really works on Heroic, that would be very helpful. It doesn't make a lot of sense for the fight to demand 3 tanks in phase 1, 2 tanks in phase 2, and 1 tank in phase 3.


Assuming Impale stacks every 10s, here's a 2 tank rotation:
000 Tank 1 impale (1)
010 Tank 1 impale (2)
020 Tank 1 impale (3) -> Tank 2 taunts
030 Tank 2 impale (1), Tank 1 at 35s
040 Tank 2 impale (2), Tank 1 at 25s
050 Tank 2 impale (3), Tank 1 at 15s
060 Tank 2 impale (4), Tank 1 at 5s -> Tank 1 taunts, Tank 2 has died horribly.

Now 2 tanks with 2 disarms:
000 Tank 1 impale (1)
010 Tank 1 impale (2)
020 Disarmed -> Tank 2 taunts, Tank 1 at 35s
030 Tank 2 impale (1), Tank 1 at 25s
040 Tank 2 impale (2), Tank 1 at 15s
050 Disarmed -> Tank 1 taunts at 5s, Tank 2 at 35s
060 Tank 1 impale (1), Tank 2 at 25s
070 Tank 1 impale (2), Tank 2 at 15s
080 Disarmed -> Tank 1 taunts at 5s, Tank 2 at 35s

This requires disarms at exactly 30s apart, which will break a 2-disarm rotation over time due to cooldown slip / latency. You really want 3 disarms for it to be reliable. Basically the current tank calls out the second impale, disarm goes out within a few seconds, and the next tank taunts anytime within 20 sec of the call.

Now, if disarms don't work on Heroic you need a 3 tank rotation:
000 Tank 1 impale (1)
010 Tank 1 impale (2) -> Tank 2 taunts
020 Tank 2 impale (1), Tank 1 at 35s
030 Tank 2 impale (2) -> Tank 3 taunts, Tank 1 at 25s
040 Tank 3 impale (1), Tank 1 at 15s, Tank 2 at 35s
050 Tank 3 impale (2) -> Tank 1 taunts at 5s, Tank 2 at 25s
060 Tank 1 impale (1), Tank 2 at 15s, Tank 3 at 35s

Taunt DR is 15 sec I believe, so 20 second taunting shouldn't cause problems as long as nobody screws it up.


My question: If you zerg him and ignore the Snobolds, will you kill him fast enough to avoid his damage stacking too high, or does he have too much HP for that? Even so, will the Snobolds take too long to kill and wipe you on phase 2? I'm assuming we will need to kill them as they come, which is the safe way to do normal mode right now.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby fafhrd » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:41 pm

PsiVen wrote:2 stacks add up to 17717 ticks, which will be painful if they line up with ~20k regular melees and potentially deadly on the 3rd Impale. If Disarm really works on Heroic, that would be very helpful. It doesn't make a lot of sense for the fight to demand 3 tanks in phase 1, 2 tanks in phase 2, and 1 tank in phase 3.


It makes sense if you're expected to let one tank die in p1 (eating too many stacks so the others can reset easily) and maybe another in p2 :D

Sacrificial tanks is a good mechanic imo, should appear in a lot more fights than just steelbreaker.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:50 pm

I'm thinking more in line of having 2 tanks and BoP/Bubble clean, in conjunction with disarms. I hate bringing more tanks to a fight than are necessary.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby dmok » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:59 pm

This seems like one of those things where a dwarf tank will have a significant advantage over other tanks. A dwarf paladin tank at that too to allow for a bubble/cancel aura macro to take care of 2 full bleed resets.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Worldie » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:08 pm

That assuming Stoneform works o.o
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Kishandra » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:15 pm

Stoneform does not work.

However, I think we will be needing 3 tanks on phase 2 as well (1 on the rooted, 2 on the mobile) - this way the tank of the mobile worm can move to a pre-designated spot whenever he gets a debuff instead of hoping people move to him, while the other tank taunts the mobile worm and tanks him undebuffed.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Worldie » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:37 pm

The disarm Theory doesn't work either.

Notice the difference in the skill
Normal:
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=67477
Heroic:
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=67479

That's right, heroic version doesn't require a weapon.

(btw, in 10 men heroic the duration is still 30 seconds so no special tactic is required)
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby baleogthefierce » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:35 pm

WARNING:

While attempting this, if you pull the beasts and the worms come out before Gormak dies, you will be deducted 2 attempts from your 50 rather than just 1 once you wipe.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Invisusira » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:40 pm

HARD MODE IS HARD
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Invisusira » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:47 pm

here's a screenshot of DD about the time the twin worms strolled onto the scene
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Xfighter » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:02 pm

Invisusira wrote:HARD MODE IS HARD

Yep, guild did 2 attempts before our raid end time, and each time the worms would come out around 20-30% left on Gormock, wiping us while trying to deal with 2 worms + 2-3 tanks with impale debuff on us.

For my guild at least, we need to work on getting DPS up a bit, and maybe revise our strat a bit.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Arkhen » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:13 pm

Reached to Icehowl...with the worms still up ...the hard mode is way more difficult than we expected, also lost 2 attempts per wipe when either the worms got in or Icehowl
Impale and tank damage is insane
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby fafhrd » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:37 pm

Invisusira wrote:HARD MODE IS AWESOME


fixt

Making each phase timellimited is the best thing they could do to this fight. Was kinda disappointed initially with it just being more damage, and then the gates opened and the worms came up and i was rofling :D

Fight is now awesome.

Got to phase 2 consistently but with sloppy p1 screwing us over. Think we'll get it tommorow if servers aren't down half the night again.
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