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[10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

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[10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby Boreen » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:37 am

We are a casual guild that has killed everything up to Auraiya and have gotten Hodir down a few times. We have gotten pretty good at these fights and the majority are one shots except for Iron Council and Ignis. Iron Council is new to us (we had skipped them to try to get more shots at the Keepers) but Ignis is not and I'm trying to come up with a better/easier way to do this fight to make it an quick kill.

Our current way of tanking him is to put him right in front of one of the pools of water and the MT drops the 1st Scorch off to the right side of the water, 2nd into the water so it disappears, 3rd Scorch off to the left, 4th Scorch into the water, and then repeat. This pattern seems to work pretty well for the MT and the OT since as soon as one Scorch fades a new one is being dropped on the other side. Also 1 side is clear for the MT to manuver around without being in a Scorch.

The problem comes from blowing up the adds. The ranged doing this job varies, but it usually a warlock, druid, or mage. They seem to consistently say that they can't see the adds thru the flames, can't tell when they are in the water, are unable to get closer to see these things without getting in the flames, or are worried about range issues because of the Scorch flames.

Are there any tips you can give to our ranged to make this easier for them? Should they position themselves differently? (I think one of the warlocks trying being in the pool and that worked expect they were out of range of heals) Should we be raid marking the adds to be blown up? Are there video options that will get rid of the flames from Scorch but leave the marks on the ground? I know in many raiding guilds you may either replace or yell at the range to get it right, but we are a very causal guild and I have found we have had alot of success when each group is given clear directions about what they need to worry about or do during a fight.

OR are we making this harder then it needs to be with our positioning? Please let me know how your guild lays the Scorches down and how this helps kill the adds. Also we seem to consistently have 1 add being pulled into the water just as the new one arrives to start hitting on the healers. The MT has been taunting this one off of them which is then grabbed by the OT. Are we being too slow with the first add or is this kinda how the fight always ends up? Thanks!
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Re: [10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby Falibard » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:44 am

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I've found it easiest to plant him in between the two pools and just spin him each time he lays fire. Melee and range almost never move.
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Re: [10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby kanst » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:14 am

We do something similar, I tank ignis and we have 2 warriors dealing with adds (this is 25 man obv). I basically tank him in a 6 spot rotation, dropping 3 flames on either side of the water, the dps dont move just stand in the middle, tanks pick up adds and go to nearest water, and we have 1 dps in charge of breaking all adds.

On 10 we do the same thing but there is only 2 tanks, me on boss, warrior on adds
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Re: [10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby Threatco » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:28 am

Raid in the middle. Drop scorches at 4 spots around the raid, in a circle/square.
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Re: [10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby Corpsicle » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:55 am

We put the raid in the middle. I stand in the pool of water on the left side of the room when entering. I only stand a yard or so in, no need to be swimming. Ignis is then basically standing on the melee/range. Note, there is no reason to have range/healers standing away from the melee - you can clump up and it can help with aoe heals. For scorches, I strafe out to my left and drop a scorch on that side of the pool. I tend to strafe out every other scorch or so, that way a scorch is up pretty much 100% of the time. Make sure to get Ignis positioned so that none of the scorch overlaps the water, if it does the scorch will disappear. Also make sure to watch for where the molten constructs get rooted in the water - you don't want to be in range of shatter. If they are stuck kind of close to you, strafe to the right, even slightly out of the water till they are shattered, then back into the water.

This means you have one scorch spot to deal with and it lets you keep the same spot up 100% of the time. Simplifies things for add tanks and for main tank - no need to kite or move around. Also lets dps and healers stay stationary - if everyone is in the right spot, no one will be out of range of add tank for taunting adds, nor will either tank ever be out of range of healers.
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Re: [10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby Boreen » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:11 am

Thanks for all the replies. I think we might try Corpsicle's approach first since it is a variation of what we currently do. Then ranged that are blowing up the adds could move to the side of the water that doesn't have a Scorch when they need to and not have to worry about trying to see through the flames.
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Re: [10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby SellassieTanks » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:35 pm

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This strat is really simple...The strat where shatterers stand on side w/o scorch has to much room for error as the tank would be dragging adds WAY too long.

W/ this strat Ignis tank (OT on this fight IMO) would just keep Ignis in the area's labeled facing as labeled. This allows the MT to always know where the newest scorch is (so it doesn't disappear b4 10stack of debuff) it also allows for an open alley between the 2 water pools for the poor DPS who needs to shatter and "can't see through fire" (BTW that's BS to cover an inability to adjust to situational change).

Using this start you can always pick up the add, drag him to newest scorch, taunt him into water, and start for next add while Lock or mage Shatter. 25man can be done w/ 2 tanks doing this, especially if a hunter is in charge of Distracting into water. In which case, you drag add to fire, let 6 stack hit stun and run....easy mode
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Re: [10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby Corpsicle » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:19 pm

The strat where shatterers stand on side w/o scorch has to much room for error as the tank would be dragging adds WAY too long


SellassieTanks, are you refering to my strat? All melee, range, healers stack up in one spot - including the dps that is shattering golems when they go molten. The add tank only has to move about 5 yards to get the adds from the fire to the pool to prep them for shatter. With the raid grouped up in one pile, add pick up is easy and we never have more than 1 or 2 up at any given time. If the dps needs better visability then they can duck around to my right, position 2 on your diagram, and then duck back but I don't think I've ever seen my dps doing so. There is no guessing where scorch is, it is always in one spot (the #1 spot on your diagram) and it is in that one spot 100% of the time.

The strat you listed is what our group used when we started killing Ignis, but I find that the strat I've described is much simpler to do and provides for higher dps and fewer healing range issues.
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Re: [10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby SellassieTanks » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:25 pm

Looking at this from a construct tanking POV I am just confused as to what happens when adds are activated say below where i have #3 positioned, the time it will take to get them in the 1 position seems like it couuld cause an overlap in the timing of the next add popping up. (especially if multiple come from the same area in a row
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Re: [10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby Corpsicle » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:35 pm

SellassieTanks wrote:Looking at this from a construct tanking POV I am just confused as to what happens when adds are activated say below where i have #3 positioned, the time it will take to get them in the 1 position seems like it couuld cause an overlap in the timing of the next add popping up. (especially if multiple come from the same area in a row


Hm. I don't think we ever have an issue with this - we have either a paladin or a DK picking up adds. The paladin uses a range taunt + shield/exo to pick them up. The DK picks them up with either a taunt or a Death Grip I believe. I'm reasonably sure that the stack doesn't fall off immediately on leaving scorch so likely the add tank runs out just far enough to get the add then runs back to the scorch spot with time to spare on the current add.

I do know that we never have more than 2 up and usually only 1, unless we get unlucky with our shatterer going in the pot and not getting an add popped in time. I know we've gotten adds dead fast enough to have no adds up because last week I had to taunt an add and hold it for a few seconds because our add tank got put in the pot during a lull in having adds up. From where I was standing, I didn't have an issue grabbing the add - and it came from behind Ignis so either position 3 or 4. I'll pay closer attention to the way the add tanks handle add pick up next week and post if I see anything different.
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Re: [10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby Threatco » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:45 pm

I just ntoiced this is 10 man thread. What I said above is 25 man.

10 man I have always tanked him in water so no scorches, and just eat the strength of the creator buff.
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Re: [10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby Kishandra » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:28 pm

Threatco wrote:I just ntoiced this is 10 man thread. What I said above is 25 man.

10 man I have always tanked him in water so no scorches, and just eat the strength of the creator buff.


A safer version of this strat (for 25man) is to tank him in one position the entire time, but let him scorch the ground (so the MT is standing in the scorch full time.)

You still have a second tank picking up and popping adds (if he's a paladin), so this way you never see huge attacks on the MT.

Scorch damage has been so thoroughly nerfed that it is not dangerous at all taking ignis + scorch at the same time. This gives you the same benefit of tanking him in the water - dps don't have to move which increases damage substantially, and also cuts down on the gib chance on the tank.
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Re: [10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby smeej » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:59 am

I just keep him in the center or the room and pivot him whenever a flame comes up, circling around to the edge of the spawned flame. Once the third flame spawns, I run back to the first flame position as it will disappear and repeat the cycle. If people can generally stay in melee range, he will move very little and you can maximize dps time. Shaved a great deal of time off this fight when I started doing this.
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Re: [10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby Arcia » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:10 pm

For 10man you really dont need to kill off the adds, just have the MT position Ignis near one of the pools and drop the scorches into the water so the dissapear after a few seconds, the offtank simply picks up all the adds and offtanks them until ignis is dead, very easy this way.
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Re: [10] Help with Ignis Scorch positions

Postby Koremar82 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:55 pm

Arcia wrote:For 10man you really dont need to kill off the adds, just have the MT position Ignis near one of the pools and drop the scorches into the water so the dissapear after a few seconds, the offtank simply picks up all the adds and offtanks them until ignis is dead, very easy this way.


Is this tactic possible with guilds that have just started Uld 10? My guild is mostly Naxx 10 and a bit of 25 geared (and some Ulduar now, only up to Iron Council atm).
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