[10] Iron Council: Seal of Justice on Brundir

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[10] Iron Council: Seal of Justice on Brundir

Postby Baelik » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:59 am

I'm using Seal of Justice on Stormcaller Brundir for our 10 man progression through Ulduar. I do this mainly because while mixing and mashing classes for the 10 man run we sometimes end up with few interrupt abilities to go around. Currently we are only doing this with Brundir as the final target.

It has been a mixed blessing, stunning him sometimes when I'm out of stun and sometimes stunning him just as I cast Hammer of Justice. I read that Diminishing Returns applies (noticeable midfight) to stuns on him but it at least adds more stuns per rotation than my normal stun/silence rotation.

In my spec I do not have Improved Hammer of Justice. I rarely need to use HoJ for any trash pulls and if I do reach for it, it is rarely on CD. So far we've cleared till Hodir and have yet to move forward.

So my questions are
  • Is it safe to use Seal of Justice on Brundir assuming DR affects all stuns?
  • Do you think it is advisable to move to Improved Hammer of Justice instead and only worry about stunning his Lightning Whirl?

Edit: Probably isn't a big deal to worry about but anything to help ease this encounter.
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Re: [10] Iron Council: Seal of Justice on Brundir

Postby majiben » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:59 am

Random stuns like SoJ (maybe only SoJ now) have their own DR in both PvP and PvE. Their DR are separate from controlled stuns' DR.

Controlled stuns like HoJ have DR in PvP but not PvE.

Personally I save HoJ for whirls on Phase 2 but use them freely in Phase 1. Don't forget that you can use AS to silence him, especially when moving him out of runes of power.
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Re: [10] Iron Council: Seal of Justice on Brundir

Postby Avengeance » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:56 am

HoJ has DR in PVE too... I dont know the timer for the DR to fall off, but if you use HOJ every CD (20 sec), the first one is 6 sec stun, the second one is around 1.5 seconds, and 3rd one is immune.

It doesnt affect the interupt part of the spell tho.
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Re: [10] Iron Council: Seal of Justice on Brundir

Postby Belloc » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:41 am

I haven't experienced DR with HoJ in PvE. If you have another paladin using it, maybe, but not if you're just using it yourself.

Brundir is somewhat misleading though. He becomes stun immune when he is the last mob alive, which can lead people to think that they're experiencing diminishing returns. I certainly thought that the first several times we killed him.


And, yeah, use Seal of Justice all you want. I use it when we do the fight on 25 man.
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Re: [10] Iron Council: Seal of Justice on Brundir

Postby Avengeance » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:44 am

You probably wouldnt hit HoJ DR unless you spec improved and use it every CD - even so, if you leave around 5-10 sec gap after its off CD, the DR would have gone. I have hit DR many times on like auriaya feral defender or Snaplasher on freya when I spam use HoJ.
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Re: [10] Iron Council: Seal of Justice on Brundir

Postby Belloc » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:18 am

I'll have to test it tonight, but I do use imp HoJ. I was under the impression that diminishing returns on CC/stuns reset after 15 seconds.

There's a chance that you're simply having other people stunning, which resets the timer for that category.
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Re: [10] Iron Council: Seal of Justice on Brundir

Postby Worldie » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:03 am

HoJ totally has DR in PvE, but you can't hit it alone since DR lasts 20 seconds and that's the cooldown of it.

However, our Ret pala also stuns, and i notice my stun duration halved fairly often.
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Re: [10] Iron Council: Seal of Justice on Brundir

Postby Avengeance » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:28 am

I think the DR kicks in after the first stun runs out (6 seconds), so you need to wait 26 seconds after first cast to use it again. Thats just my assumption because I am sure I hit DR with my own HOJ alone and noone elses.
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Re: [10] Iron Council: Seal of Justice on Brundir

Postby Funtodin » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:53 am

We run with 2 rets plus I'm tanking with Imp HoJ, so we get mobs on DR and immune all the time.
I'm not sure if it happens being the only one though since whenever I get DR (very often) I assume someone else must have done it.
It's quite easy to notice during the General Trash when I tend to interrupt those casters every CD and the trash pulls last like 2 mins each.
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Re: [10] Iron Council: Seal of Justice on Brundir

Postby Baelik » Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:49 am

Well after few attempts I found it easier to have our DK or Warrior Tank on Brundir through Phase 2. SoJ is just too random and unimproved HoJ has too long a cooldown. I guess SoJ might help on getting the interrupt achievement.

After watching the videos, I reckon if we lack the interrupts again it would probably be best for us to leave Molgheim for last.
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Re: [10] Iron Council: Seal of Justice on Brundir

Postby Eroslight » Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:11 am

Just so everybody is on the same page with DRs and stuns:
(As I know it and have experienced)

Please correct me if I am incorrect!

DR lasts 15 seconds from the time the first HoJ is cast - resetting everytime another stun triggers its DR:

I Hoj for a full duration 6 second stun.
10 seconds go by
Paladin 2 Hojs for a half duration 3 seconds stun
10 more seconds go buy
I hoj again for a 1.5 second duration stun
10 seconds go by
Paladin 3 Hojs for no effect (but still interupts)
Mob is immune for 15 seconds.

I know for a fact that DR starts as soon as I cast my stun for example:

I Hoj for a full duration 6 second stun.
20 seconds goes by with no controlled stuns on the mob.
I Hoj again for another full duration 6 second stun.

I have done the second example consistently on mobs especially Brundir.

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Re: [10] Iron Council: Seal of Justice on Brundir

Postby Mysticknight » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:23 pm

hes immune to the stun but not the interup really u don't need to interup anything but the Lightning Whirl
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Re: [10] Iron Council: Seal of Justice on Brundir

Postby PsiVen » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:20 pm

Baelik wrote:Well after few attempts I found it easier to have our DK or Warrior Tank on Brundir through Phase 2. SoJ is just too random and unimproved HoJ has too long a cooldown. I guess SoJ might help on getting the interrupt achievement.

After watching the videos, I reckon if we lack the interrupts again it would probably be best for us to leave Molgheim for last.


You didn't mention which mode you want to kill them in.
For Steelbreaker last, Brundir should be first and you don't really need any interrupts. This mode is actually easier than Runemaster last in 10-man IMO, but harder to heal than easy mode.
For Runemaster last, Brundir should be second and you should have a dedicated interrupt only for the Lightning Whirl. For Brundir last, Steelbreaker comes first and you'll again need a real interrupt on Lightning Whirl. HoJ and SoJ won't cut it, you need someone with a 10s cooldown. So yes, in 10m if you only have tanks that can interrupt, one of them should be on Brundir.
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