[25] stuck on yogg p3

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[25] stuck on yogg p3

Postby steadypal » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:58 am

what are the secrets, i've read pretty much all the strats, and we are just stuck,


guardians not dying fast enough, guardians dying, but then we notice yogg is not dying whatsoever, are we just not finding the great mix of dps onto each thing in phase 3 or what is it? melee on boss, or adds, or should we put ranged on yogg or adds? what are some of these secrets...


tank guardians in the back, near yogg so melee can switch off and kill them faster...




any suggestions would be great.


Ninja edited your subject title for conformity --Guillex
Last edited by steadypal on Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: stuck on yogg p3

Postby Jasari » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:07 am

(For 10man)

We generally put all ranged on Yogg, and 2 melee DPS on guardians. The guardians usually end up dying faster than they need to this way and the melee will get a couple seconds to DPS Yogg between spawns occasionally.

The key thing to remember (especially for a progression kill) is that the enrage time is very forgiving, at least in my experience. We found it was better to play it safe and blow up the guardians fast to keep everything under control than to try to get Yogg down super quick. I'm sure this changes as you start taking away watchers but for four watchers, you can overkill the adds and still have 5 minutes left on the enrage timer.
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Re: stuck on yogg 25.. p3

Postby Serelynn » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:18 am

How much time do you have left going into P3? Do you have any Crusher Tentacles up going into P3? How many Corrupter Tentacles do you still have up, and are people still dispelling? Tell us what your raid composition is like and any specifics about what you are doing right/wrong in the earlier phases.

If DPS on Yogg-Saron is slow, that is fine, take as long as you need provided you don't hit the enrage timer. Our first two kills we only had a minute or two left before the enrage, but all of our DPS focused on the Immortal Guardians so we didn't wipe. The only time DPS should be on Yogg-Saron is if there are no Immortal Guardians up or the only ones that are alive are at 1% health - early on you need to do this, as you improve your DPS can learn how to manage P3 better.
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Re: stuck on yogg 25.. p3

Postby kasino » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:21 am

For 25 man, we use our portal team to dps yogg, and and tentacle team on gaurdians, also, if we happen to have a ranged or 2 in the portal team, they are also on the gaurdians....short answer i guess is, melee on yogg, ranged on adds.

We position something like this

Boss
All dps (both melee and ranged in the same spot yes)
Tanks+gaurdians (about 10 yards away from where all the dps is)
Healers (at maximum range from all the dps, and have holy pallys put up rightous fury so adds that spawn at back come toward them, just be sure to taunt off them before the gaurdian gets to the healer)

I cant be sure of your dps make-up, but if your anywhere around 6-8 melee, and the rest ranged, then you have what we do when we use this strat.
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Re: stuck on yogg 25.. p3

Postby steadypal » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:24 am

most of the time no crushers are up, and healers are still dispelling all through p3,

start of phase 3 i'd say we have about 5 minutes on enrage, is that enough time? or do we need to improve that by quite a bit, how much time is needed?


so suggest slow and steady and as long as we keep guardians down we'll eventually down him?
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Re: stuck on yogg 25.. p3

Postby Serelynn » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:44 am

I think Yogg-Saron has 55 million health on 25 man, P3 starts at 30% or 16.5 million health. With roughly 5 minutes left before the Enrage timer means you only need an average of 27,500 DPS. 5 minutes is more than enough time!

Your top 5-8 DPS can output that much damage alone, just go slow and steady, keep everyone alive, kill Immortal Guardians, spend a few seconds on Yogg-Saron, then back to Immortal Guardians and he'll die.
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Re: stuck on yogg 25.. p3

Postby Arianne » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:33 pm

If you have one crusher up in 25 p3, do you have your DPS kill that in down time between guardians or do you have them go to YS?
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Re: stuck on yogg 25.. p3

Postby semp » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:01 pm

everyone stands in 1 group. melee mow down the adds, ranged kill the boss. More than 3 adds up at once = wipe b/c to many ar going to be hitting to hard. make sure when you trigger P3 there are ZERO crushers up. We tank the adds close to yogg, so melee aoe also hit yogg (ret paladins mostly). As tanks should never be facing yogg ever, so they should never be hit by that purple shit he shoots and pretty much same for melee. 5 healers is enough for this fight, to many and you could run into enrage issues.
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Re: [25] stuck on yogg p3

Postby samsara » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:05 am

we do it the different way,

we let melee do dps on boss and the range dps on the adds.
one tank picks all adds and me just grap one out which is mt target to focus down.

http://vimeo.com/5572629

(here's a vid of our 2nd kill, yeah i know the music is strange but it's from a warrior :) )
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Re: [25] stuck on yogg p3

Postby Treck » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:45 am

The vid above seems to show a strange tactic for P3, but if it works for you.
We just have 2 tanks taking turns on the adds. Tanking them right outside the boss, so that meele aoe hits the boss aswell.
Ranged or atleast 2 dedicated ranged groups are on the boss at all times.
If the meele needs help they just call for some help and others will do some dmg on the guardians aswell.
Theres a trick for casters how they can maximize their DPS by standing at the meele aswell so that when they turn, they will be facing the adds to dps them.
Hunters cant do this since you will basicly stand on the adds, but other casters can do this fine.
Aff warlocks are to valuable to have on the boss to use on the adds, aswell as ranged with a dps rotation.
Mages and hunters are prolly the best classes for helping out should the meele need some help on the guardians. Good benchmark is that the first one should be on 20% or so before you start dpsing the next add, you will notice it easy if you fall behind and if you made P2 with 3 portal phases time shouldnt be much of an issue so you should be able to just ask every dps to swich for the adds to get them under control.
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Re: [25] stuck on yogg p3

Postby Seloei » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:57 am

hunters can stand to the left/right of the tanks and they can dps the adds full time without having to turn while melee splash damage still hits the boss. They can also turn minimally to hit the boss and turn away fast when there are no high health adds alive.

have your healers stand outside of the 'melee range' and forward from the tanks so that they don't get twatted.
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Re: [25] stuck on yogg p3

Postby itankforcash » Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:14 am

samsara wrote:we do it the different way,

we let melee do dps on boss and the range dps on the adds.
one tank picks all adds and me just grap one out which is mt target to focus down.


That's pretty inaffective, might be fine for +4 watchers, but for +1, you might want to switch it around.

Most melee classes are bursty, ranged classes profit more from nuking 1 target for a long period of time than to keep switching, since the adds usually/supposed to die in about 10 seconds, it really sucks for casters to nuke it. Spriests + Warlocks dots, Mages ignites etc all wasted here + there threat is crazier, mages in my guild with 4 set getting like 6 instant pyros in a row... lol.

I don't understand why you don't just have 1st tank take first add, 2nd tank take second add, much easier for dps to understand what to dps aswell... Rather than wait for you to taunt before they know what to nuke next?
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Re: [25] stuck on yogg p3

Postby Splug » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:18 am

Or just have one tank pick up everything and burn it to the ground. It's not a big deal if you lose control of a guardian at 20% health to pick up the next one.

If you're going into p3 with tentacles up, that's a major source of trouble. The portal crew should NOT push Yogg over early unless the top is clear; they need to give you as much of the full 60 seconds of Induce Madness' cast time as they feel safe with. If they get the brain down to 35% with 30 seconds left on their portal phase, they have to stand in there and dance or something for 15-20 seconds, then burn the last 5%. Every crusher left up either cripples your damage output, or adds a major healing strain. Corruptors are manageable, but the occasional random tank stun from black plague can cause guardians to run free. Apathy slows your damage as well. Even near-instant cleanses can be problematic.

The best way we found to clean up p3 was to have a better p2, and the best way to keep that clean is to have fast portal stuns while completing the fight in 2-3 portal phases. Also, the more damage dealers you can run, the better - cut down on excess healing and tanking; both can be handled by a skeleton crew and it does simplify everything else to just blow through adds faster, which keeps the healing and tanking manageable with a smaller number. The enrage timer is also a very real concern on 25 - and moreso as you start losing keepers.

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