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[10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

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[10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby Rhazi » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:41 am

This guy has been a brick wall for us all week. Our 10 man group blazed through pretty much everything and we decided to do Hard Mode for Iron Council. I figured it'd be a few wipes before we got everything down, but this has inflicting repair bills for far longer than I predicted. What the hell? Am I completely missing something? I'll share what we've done so far from my point of view.

Phase 1: The druid body pulls and I pick up Steelbreaker and drag him to the opposite side of the room. Dps focuses on Stormcaller while I dance with the big guy. Spam cleanse on fusion punch, move him out of runes. For phase one, I can handle a runed fusion punch, no problem.

Phase 2: DPS moves on to Runemaster and my job gets harder. I do the same as in phase 1 except I have to use trinket/cd if I get a runed fusion punch. I try to move him out of it, but there isn't always time since fusion punch and rune of power are on different cd's. This is where the wipes happens.
Reasons:
-Rune of power pops up during or immediately after a fusion punch.
-Rune of power pops up as well as Rune of death (That really...really sucked)
-Steelbreaker turns around and sucker punches my healer with a fusion punch (Really? WTF?)
-Fusion punch refuses to cleanse. (Only happens once in a while)
-Dps drops the ball and gets hit by an overload
-Caster fails to purge Runemaster's shield

Phase 3: Didn't even make it to this point yesterday, I'd like to focus on tips for the phase 2 for now.

I suggested taking out the Runemaster first...but one arrogant shaman refused to change our plan until the Rune of Power and Rune of Death hit me at the same time. We only got one shot in for this method afterwards...and that same shaman apparently decided he didn't want to help the other shaman purge shields and we wiped. I seriously have no idea what's happening on the other side of the room. I usually try to assume that everyone is doing their job since the raid leader is over there dpsing. But...I am open to suggestions for all aspects for this fight, as I am about to refuse to tank it if we can't make progress. Our composition is usually:

Bear: Tank
Pally (Me): Steelbreaker tank
Pally, Tree, Something else (Usually priest or another pally) : Heals
Rogue (Raid leader), Shaman (Ele), Shaman (Ehancement), Warlock, Random dps (DK, Mage, Hunter...depends on who is on for the last slot)
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Re: [10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby Jasari » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:13 am

Killing Runemaster first is much easier as long as your DPS is good enough to not need the extra runes of power.
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Re: [10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby Rhazi » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:15 am

Jasari wrote:Killing Runemaster first is much easier as long as your DPS is good enough to not need the extra runes of power.


That's what I was thinking. Runes of Power don't even come into play in Phase 3, and even if one is close enough, it will only stay up for a few seconds. Bottom line, more hinderance than help. My only problem was a lone shaman complaining that we didn't have enough interrupts for Stormcaller.
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Re: [10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby Belloc » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:27 am

Kill Runemaster first and have competent healers deal with the chain lightning damage.

Seriously, not once have we ever had anyone interrupting that bastard until after Runemaster dies.

One tip, though: When Runemaster is dead and you switch to Stormcaller... TAUNT him. Otherwise, he'll get interrupted and aggro a healer. Oh, and be spread out at that point. Ranged should all be 10 yards apart. Once Stormcaller is dead, all but 3 players should go into melee range (we leave our 2 healers and a hunter out), and those 3 must be spread out. This is to avoid more than one person getting hit by Steelbreaker's targeted aoe lightning damage/debuff.
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Re: [10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby Avengeance » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:50 am

in 10 men we always kill stormcaller first, then leave runemaster on 2% until a new rune of power spawns, then we kill him, blow BL and zerg Steelbreaker. The reason we do this is we kil him before first tank dies - and get our immortal achievment every reset for new people.
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Re: [10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby moduspwnens » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:52 am

Rhazi wrote:
Jasari wrote:Killing Runemaster first is much easier as long as your DPS is good enough to not need the extra runes of power.


That's what I was thinking. Runes of Power don't even come into play in Phase 3, and even if one is close enough, it will only stay up for a few seconds. Bottom line, more hinderance than help. My only problem was a lone shaman complaining that we didn't have enough interrupts for Stormcaller.


The runes of power last for 30 seconds. If you can handle the healing / repositioning, the best way to do it is by killing Brundir first. Take Molgheim to 1-2%, wait for a rune of power to drop, then kill him. Now you have 25-30 seconds of a (probably) Bloodlusted Rune of Power which is obviously a massive help for the DPS race that is phase 3.

As for dealing with Phase 2, be sure a Hunter has Aspect of the Wild up or a Shaman has NR totem up. The punch is nature damage. Secondly, DBM has a timer for Rune of Power's cooldown, and he usually casts it fairly reliably within 5 seconds of it being up, so as the cooldown is expiring start kiting Steelbreaker. Not walking backwards, but with the sideways-still-running-at-full-speed skipping while keeping him technically in front of you. This will eliminate all but the terribly unfortunate "Rune of Power as he's finishing casting Fusion Punch," but you can survive this. Pop Shield Wall if you have to, but I don't think I had to as long as the healers are on their toes (and I wasn't in 25man gear at the time).

For Phase 3, you now have all healers on you, so it's not that bad for tank #1. Sure, he's hitting hard, but not so much that your healers can't handle it. Tank #2 may have trouble. He'll probably want a cooldown for picking him up initially (I usually HoSac him as I run off to die from the Meltdown) and then he'll be able to pop another if he needs to. When we did it, my raid battle rezzed me just in case, but we didn't end up needing another tank.
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Re: [10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby Rhazi » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:58 am

Belloc wrote:Kill Runemaster first and have competent healers deal with the chain lightning damage.

Seriously, not once have we ever had anyone interrupting that bastard until after Runemaster dies.

One tip, though: When Runemaster is dead and you switch to Stormcaller... TAUNT him. Otherwise, he'll get interrupted and aggro a healer. Oh, and be spread out at that point. Ranged should all be 10 yards apart. Once Stormcaller is dead, all but 3 players should go into melee range (we leave our 2 healers and a hunter out), and those 3 must be spread out. This is to avoid more than one person getting hit by Steelbreaker's targeted aoe lightning damage/debuff.


Okay, this all seems to match up with my assumptions. Next time we go to Council we'll use this plan, or my 10 man can find someone else to tank Steelbreaker. We should have been perfecting phase 3 last night, not chain wiping on phase 2. I'd really like to move on to General xD

moduspwnens wrote:The runes of power last for 30 seconds. If you can handle the healing / repositioning, the best way to do it is by killing Brundir first. Take Molgheim to 1-2%, wait for a rune of power to drop, then kill him. Now you have 25-30 seconds of a (probably) Bloodlusted Rune of Power which is obviously a massive help for the DPS race that is phase 3.

As for dealing with Phase 2, be sure a Hunter has Aspect of the Wild up or a Shaman has NR totem up. The punch is nature damage. Secondly, DBM has a timer for Rune of Power's cooldown, and he usually casts it fairly reliably within 5 seconds of it being up, so as the cooldown is expiring start kiting Steelbreaker. Not walking backwards, but with the sideways-still-running-at-full-speed skipping while keeping him technically in front of you. This will eliminate all but the terribly unfortunate "Rune of Power as he's finishing casting Fusion Punch," but you can survive this. Pop Shield Wall if you have to, but I don't think I had to as long as the healers are on their toes (and I wasn't in 25man gear at the time).

For Phase 3, you now have all healers on you, so it's not that bad for tank #1. Sure, he's hitting hard, but not so much that your healers can't handle it. Tank #2 may have trouble. He'll probably want a cooldown for picking him up initially (I usually HoSac him as I run off to die from the Meltdown) and then he'll be able to pop another if he needs to. When we did it, my raid battle rezzed me just in case, but we didn't end up needing another tank.


Ahhhh...I was operating on the assumption the Rune of Power would pop up under target where ever it is...but are you saying that the location is chosen when the cast starts and will stay in that spot if the target moves before the cast is finished?
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Re: [10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby Mordinm » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:37 pm

We do the Runemaster first and it seems much easier. Haven't really had a problem killing him in 2 tanks with a 3 healer set up as far as dps in phase 3 is concerned. I would recommend getting to phase 3 the easy was first (runemaster then stormcaller) and then if you have dps issues you have the option to switch it up and your healers will already know what it takes to keep the tanks up though Steelbreaker's damage.

One thing I would recommend is having a single dispeller for Fusion punch. For your setup I'd say take responsibility for dispelling yourself. Threat is a non issue so you can spam a self cleanse marco as he is casting and not worry about capping dps due to the need to keep your GCD free. This frees up the healing pally to time his heal to land right after fusion punch. I heal this fight on my shaman and I personally think if you don't have at least one big heal landing not more then half a second after the fusion punch your healers need to plan things out better. Be very sure if you do try kiting not to turn your back to him. The burst is large but it's very predictable.

Your group is caster heavy so I would just ignore Stormcaller and let him spam his Lightening while you kill runemaster. Make sure everyone knows not to interrupt him as doing so generally causes him to run into the group and do his AoE of death on everyone.

I'd generally leave purging to the enhance shaman or a fel pup as well. Enhancement has more open GCDs and purging hurts their dps less then elemental.
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Re: [10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby Invisusira » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:46 pm

Avengeance wrote:in 10 men we always kill stormcaller first, then leave runemaster on 2% until a new rune of power spawns, then we kill him, blow BL and zerg Steelbreaker. The reason we do this is we kil him before first tank dies - and get our immortal achievment every reset for new people.

This is what we do.

Getting falcon punched while he is on a rune is very, VERY rare. If you don't have the HP to survive one, shield wall will easily save you. If he does this more than once, you're tanking him wrong. Step up your reaction time, move him out of those runes.
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Re: [10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby Splug » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:29 pm

If he decides to wind up fusion punch while in motion, the AI does some very odd things - usually involving punching a (seemingly random) target who is in melee range at some time during the cast.

That said, there is less raid damage if you kill Molgiem first, making the fight easier to sustain to the end. Killing Brundir first moves the difficulty from P3 to P2, and in exchange does make P3 easier. Wiping in P2 using that strategy isn't anything to be ashamed of or upset at really; you're in the hardest stage of the fight for the strategy you're using. If you want to practice the fight and see where you stand damage-wise, I recommend offing Molgiem first - and if the tanks exploding presents a problem then you know you don't have the damage to do Molgiem first.

At the end of the day, both strategies are successful and have a completely different set of advantages and disadvantages. If your raid is good at dodging void zones and moving, Brundir-first will give you a lower gear hurdle. If your raid is good with raw throughput and brute force, Molgiem-first will prove simpler.

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Re: [10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby Rhazi » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:21 pm

Splug wrote:If he decides to wind up fusion punch while in motion, the AI does some very odd things - usually involving punching a (seemingly random) target who is in melee range at some time during the cast.

That said, there is less raid damage if you kill Molgiem first, making the fight easier to sustain to the end. Killing Brundir first moves the difficulty from P3 to P2, and in exchange does make P3 easier. Wiping in P2 using that strategy isn't anything to be ashamed of or upset at really; you're in the hardest stage of the fight for the strategy you're using. If you want to practice the fight and see where you stand damage-wise, I recommend offing Molgiem first - and if the tanks exploding presents a problem then you know you don't have the damage to do Molgiem first.

At the end of the day, both strategies are successful and have a completely different set of advantages and disadvantages. If your raid is good at dodging void zones and moving, Brundir-first will give you a lower gear hurdle. If your raid is good with raw throughput and brute force, Molgiem-first will prove simpler.

-Splug


Yeah, I recognized the pros and cons as the strats were presented. Having my healer fusion punched twice was frustrating, but now I see why it happened. He likes to stay melee range so he can judge wisdom and get some mana from pot shots. I can warn him to stay clear when at all possible. I really think we have the dps to do Molgiem first, I just have to sell it to the party. Watching for Rune of Power cd's and doing the premptive moving will help if they decide they want to stick with taking out Brundir first. With either plan, we would have the lock soul stone me if we make to stage 3 just in case so I can pop after exploding. Then I get up, LoH, and get back in the fight to provide some dps. Thanks for the advice guys. If we have the motivation to try it again tonight, I'll give a follow up.
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Re: [10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby moduspwnens » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:45 am

Rhazi wrote:Ahhhh...I was operating on the assumption the Rune of Power would pop up under target where ever it is...but are you saying that the location is chosen when the cast starts and will stay in that spot if the target moves before the cast is finished?


Well, it all depends on how much DPS you need. It does appear under whoever he casts it on, so that'll be either A) himself, or B) Steelbreaker. So as he's about to die, tank him right behind Steelbreaker. If he casts it on himself, it's now positioned perfectly. If not, then pull Steelbreaker just out of it and your melee should still be able to DPS from it. For 10 man we never needed to have our melee in it, but that obviously will vary by group.
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Re: [10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby Rhazi » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:09 am

Unfortunately, we didn't get to Ulduar last night. Guild decided instead to do a scrub run through Naxx 25. It was annoyong how all the stuff I wanted drops now when it's obsolete. Anyway, I'm confident that Council hard mode will go more fluidly with all this advice.
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Re: [10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby Falibard » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:49 pm

My groups have always leaned toward the runemaster > stormcaller > steelbreaker strat. While it may be convenient to have the rune of power going into phase 3 minimizing raid damage to allow for 2 healers tends to be more beneficial. Also remember that in 10 man the tank has the damage buff for a full minute which puts him at almost a normal dpser's level of damage. Our feral tanked first and we had Steelbreaker to ~25% before he blew up and the fight ended shortly after my tank phase started.
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Re: [10] I Choose You Steelbreaker

Postby Hakuteiken » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:57 am

Group make up for my 10man IC Hardmode downings.

Prot Paladin (sometimes on Steelbreaker othertimes on Mol and Brun, just depends)
Prot Warrior/DK (again sometimes on Steelbreaker or the other two)
Hunter
Mage
Rogue
DK
Ret Pal
Resto Shaman
Resto Druid
Disc Priest

Steelbreaker tank w/ Disc Priest (single healing). Use Seal of Light and Judgement of Light while tanking Steelbreaker, you'll gain so much threat over time anyway, it won't matter. Usually during each cast time of Fusion Punch I'll stop what I'm doing completely and just spam my cleanse button as fast as I can so it'll be dispelled quickly (I can usually do it faster than the priest) if not, just have the priest handle it, but you might gimped out of a heal.

Brun down first. The secondary tank should be good enough at positioning mobs that they can keep Molgeim and Brundir out of the Rune of Power just enough so melee and ranged can stand in it all times and also generate enough threat that they don't have to ease up much.

Molgeim next however DO NOT kill him until he drops down a fresh Rune of Power for your range to stand in, it doesn't really matter too much with the melee.

Now here's the cool thing with Steelbreaker I dunno if tons of people actually do.. anytime someone gains TOP threat, he'll give you the Meltdown debuff, you don't have to be hit by him at all.. just top of his threat list. See where I'm going with this? If not well..

What we do is the first minute the original Steelbreaker tank pops all his major damaging abilities and goes crazy trying to do as much damage. At around 12 seconds left, we have ALL melee that can taunt like a DK, Ret Paladin, Warrior go to max taunt range and taunt Steelbreaker, then the second tank taunts him back onto himself and pops all damaging CDs. It's usually best to have a Paladin as the second tank due to being able to pop wings and generate loads of threat because those DPS with the debuff will do MASSIVE DPS. The other original 1st tank just runs off and dies in the corner.

In a perfect world you can have your 2nd tank + 1 to 2 melee DPS or more with the debuff. You'll destroy Steelbreaker so quickly that he'll be dead inside 1min 30sec overall.
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