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[25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby Threatco » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:45 pm

This fight is pretty easy 10 man.

We can only get thorim hard mode to 40%. Got 2 adds on freya but 3 adds is a way. Even heartbreaker is not very easy. But this is easy. Let this be the first hard-mode you get.
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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby cordelia » Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:08 am

Threatco wrote:This fight is pretty easy 10 man.

We can only get thorim hard mode to 40%. Got 2 adds on freya but 3 adds is a way. Even heartbreaker is not very easy. But this is easy. Let this be the first hard-mode you get.


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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby Threatco » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:44 am

Just a side note, since there is no Steelbreaker 10 thread, because it's too easy to need one.
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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby Inphy » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:19 am

I've been tanking Steelbreaker for a great part last night. And phase 1 and 2 were doable, though I still took quite alot of hard hits compared to the druid and warrior tanks. But once I get to phase 3, I mostly get 1 shotted. Is this happening with other paladins aswell? My gear isn't that bad, but I might lack some stamina. I'm at 42k hp buffed.

The dispelling failing actualy happened to me quite a few times aswell. People dindn't believe me at first, but seeing I'm not the only one, confirms it.

Does anyone actualy tried getting a Hunter to take the explosion? It looks like it should work.
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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby Anorian » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:38 am

mhmm more tankadins from dunemaul:) anorian from MM here.

Well 42k hp seems a tad low, im at 46k fully buffed, but then again I haven't done the proper hardmode there, we just killed semi last night for the first time. the ability to cleanse yourself is very nice here, just make sure you're not in a GCD when the debuff comes up.

And btw I haven't seen any fails on the dispell yet, and I tank him every week on normal 25 and 10 hard. Just mash the dispell till you see the debuff being removed. It ticks so insanely fast :shock:
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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby Treck » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:43 am

If your refering to Meltdown thingy he does on the maintank, i doubt its doable with hunters taking it instead of the tank, since im pretty sure he will recast it every attack or every 5-10sec atleast on the tanks unless they allrdy have it.
We were trying this a week ago, with me tanking steelbreaker.
At first it looked like crap.
In P1 he was hitting me for 21-25k, making healers stressed like hell (i had a pally and a restodruid healing me at that time)
And when we entered P2 he was hitting so hard healers were going oom right as P3 started. Very stressfull for the healers, and i was getting annoyed since i didnt understand why he hit so hard all of the sudden :S
I later started using Armor pots (one pre fight, and then one when 2nd add is on about 50% (makes it possible to use 3times the same fight since you can reuse it if your combatressed/soulstone).
It however didnt do that much but i noticed a minor differance.
After a bit more tweaking we realiced we had no priest or shaman healing me, thus me not getting 25% more armor buff.
After a fast change of healers (pally/shaman) on me, he was hitting for substantionally less dmg.
We later included Imp Demoshout, and Curse of weakness.
After all those debuffs and buffs, i was sitting at 47100 hp, 62% avoidance (dont remember armor, but around 38k iirc), and Steelbreaker in P1, was hitting me for 14-16k hits, thats close to 10k removed from most hits.
Even if the Dps warrior had to run around like a headless chicken with demoshout, commanding shout and keeping sunders up at the current add, healers were never even close to stressed out on keeping me alive.
As i remember, i think he was hitting for around 21-24k in P2, and maybe up to 26-30k at the start of P3, but then it wasnt rly problem since you have more healers on you.
We managed to have both tanks killed, CRessed/SSed and tanking untill the 5th tank died (thats me first, DK second, me 3rd with CDs, DK 4th, and me 5th with 2xGuardian spirits after each other) should prolly only need 4 tanks there, but a dps died in the middle so the boss healed a lot. But i think the tanking vs CDs are pretty much sorted, but whats killing us is ppl just dying in P3.
Are they suppose to run under the boss with soakers standin at range getting the debuff, then running in again so they wont get it again but take static charge at that time? i havnt read up on those abilities to much, or how ranged/healers/meele should be doing, but i wouldnt mind beeing prepared for next week.
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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby Janduin » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:57 pm

10% is high in my opinion. I've had it happen once on that fight Cleansing myself.
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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby moduspwnens » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:07 pm

Just posted this in the Successes thread, but we finally got this down after a few full nights of attempts.

We started trying it doing Brundir -> Molgeim -> Steelbreaker. This means you take five healers, but the bonus is that you (presumably) have a Rune of Power placed directly behind Steelbreaker for almost all of your DPS to be in. Runes of Power increase damage done by 50% and last one minute from when they're dropped, and since you realistically have only 90 seconds or less to kill him (otherwise cooldowns aren't up and he's hitting too hard), you can blow Bloodlust and take him down.

Our officers several attempts later, though, decided that this is too RNG-based. First, Runemaster isn't a pansy, let alone when Brundir's down. He hits hard, and his consistent Runes of Shielding and Runes of Power mean that (when passive healing is considered) you're only three hits from death quite often. Don't forget that you also have Steelbreaker's aura ticking, as well as his Static Disruption which could hit you and the melee at any time. Rune of Death does have a cooldown, but it isn't cast reliably afterward either. Don't forget that the Rune of Power could be passed under Steelbreaker just before a Fusion Punch, requiring a fast cooldown or some creative kiting that could put you out of range of your healers in the untimely event of a poorly placed Rune of Death.

If you survive all of those things, now comes another important thing. Just before Molgeim dies, whoever's tanking him will need to pull him behind Steelbreaker. Halt all DPS and have them spread out to avoid a bad Rune of Death. As soon as he casts his Rune of Power, burst him down. If he cast it on himself, that's optimal. Steelbreaker shouldn't be in it, although the tank may have to back up a little to keep him out of it because he does grow in size some with the death of each of his friends. There's a 50% chance, though, that it'll be on Steelbreaker. If it is, the tank will have to do his best to back Steelbreaker out of it quickly (as healers were spread out to avoid Runes of Death and Static Disruption), but not so far such that melee doesn't get the rune. If melee can't get the rune, you've just lost a good amount of what this whole strategy's about. Steelbreaker doesn't have the "if you run into my hitbox, I'll turn around and walk away from you slowly" movement mechanic, so if you back out too far, you're mostly out of luck. There likely isn't enough time (or focused healing) for the OT to taunt him back closer or for the MT to spin him around and walk him closer into place.

...but it should be easier once you get to this point, because you have five healers and a great DPS buff for your raid in the most critical section. That's the advantage to the strat.
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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby moduspwnens » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:18 pm

As I said, though, we didn't use that strategy. We decided to try Molgeim -> Brundir -> Steelbreaker. For this, you take only three/four healers to make up for the loss of the rune.

Doing it this way, most of the RNG is minimized. If, in phase 1, Molgeim tosses a rune under Steelbreaker, it's early enough that popping Shield Wall isn't a problem at all (and he doesn't have the DPS buff he'd have if you'd have killed Brundir first). It's really not a big deal at all. We have a DPS DK tank Brundir away from everyone else to avoid Overloads and DPS takes down Molgeim. After Molgeim is down, drag the mobs together with your Static Disruption soakers at range. You're effectively already in position for the next phase. Interrupt everything as usual.

The only tricky part at this point is Overload. When Brundir casts it, everyone inside should run out as expected. However, running out while tanking Steelbreaker is a bad idea. This basically means that it's quite possible that a Fusion Punch could land quite close to the overload. Looking over the logs, I take two per attempt for about 11k each with no cooldowns, so it's nothing lethal, it's just something your healers will have to be aware about. Well, and I guess at least one or two healers need to be the ranged soakers so they're not running out as they need to be healing you. After the second Overload, Brundir is usually around 8-10% and we order our DPS to start stacking DoTs and such. While he does heal to full after Brundir dies, he doesn't clear DoTs, so we're squeezing out every last bit.

It shouldn't take too many attempts to master everything up to this point, but now by making the first two phases a lot easier, the toughest phase is now a little tougher. The first tank shouldn't require any cooldowns to survive Fusion Punches. You'll have a massive damage buff, so as a Prot Paladin, you may as well pop wings. I'm glyphed for AS, so AS crits are massive. The OT will call out that he's taunting in five seconds when the debuff has ten seconds left. I turn my camera around backwards and stare at Omen. The moment his threat bar shoots up to mine, I double-button mouse click to run as far as I can away from the group.

He's a Warrior OT, so I assume he alternates Last Stand and Shield Wall. Meanwhile, I pop my Soulstone (or await my battle rez) and then immediately pop LoH if it's up (and a Healthstone + Health Potion if not). I then run into the tanking position and buff up, which seems to take FOREVER when you're dealing with a ~20 second window (RF + Devo Aura + BoSac + SS + DP + SoV + HS + Judgement = 12 seconds). Anyway, after calling my taunt five seconds ahead of time and taunting, I immediately pop Divine Protection. The Warrior JUST ate a Fusion Punch, so mine should be coming toward the middle or end of the buff. After it's done, I immediately pop HoSalv and call for Pain Suppression, which is just enough damage reduction to withstand (what is now) the ~100k damage Fusion Punch. Pop trinkets afterward and hope that the DPS kills him before you Meltdown.
Last edited by moduspwnens on Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby moduspwnens » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:55 pm

Didn't mean to write a novel about the encounter, but I'm sure it'll give some perspective to anyone who's considering trying it. A few other things worth considering:

    Your Cleanse very much can fail, and if it does (without a backup), Fusion Punch's debuff will tick and most likely kill you. I use two combat announcements for this specific fight in relation to dispels and I've posted them here.

    Once Phase 3 begins, Steelbreaker synchronizes his timers, in that Fusion Punches will happen at the same times throughout your tanks' Overwhelming Power and Meltdowns. This makes it easier to plan cooldowns and taunts for tank transitions.

    This fight is similar to Malygos in that it's frustrating that Phase 3 has the steepest learning curve, but is at the very end of the encounter. It also has the added element of frustration because chances are... your DPS is doing everything right just about every time but can't affect the outcome of the fight anywhere near as much as tanks and healers. It can make them impatient as the tanks and healers master the phase 3 transitions.

    It may not be 100% necessary that the tanks transition five seconds before their debuff kills them. If melee is at max range on his back side and tanks are at max range on his front side, you may be able to get away with a quick taunt back-and-forth sometime during phase 2 and get an extra five seconds out of each cycle (an extra 10 seconds to DPS out of only about 100-110 otherwise) this way. The only caveat is that your tank will need to be Shield Walling as the other one dies because Meltdown will be hitting him. I was taunting early and still getting hit by the other tanks', but logs show it only hit for 11.5k after Shield Wall (his melee will be hitting for much more).

Now that we've mastered the tank transitions in Phase 3, I may suggest that we switch to the strategy I mentioned first since we won't have to worry as much about taking five tries to get to practice Phase 3. Once you have it under control, it'll probably make for a more stable kill. We only cleared my second Meltdown by a few seconds.

EDIT: Log of tonight's kill:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-j ... 581&e=5885
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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby Treck » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:13 am

Eh..
3 Healers? how? :S

Also, the logs are suggesting 4 healers + 1 retri.
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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby moduspwnens » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:34 am

Treck wrote:Eh..
3 Healers? how? :S

Also, the logs are suggesting 4 healers + 1 retri.


That's right, we started with 3 healers but added another to help with topping off. The tanks were doing OK, but we'd lose one or two raid members in Phase 3 (wipe). I'll fix that.
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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby Falibard » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:13 am

Janduin wrote:10% is high in my opinion. I've had it happen once on that fight Cleansing myself.


But you're not there for raids anymore :(
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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby Meloree » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:38 pm

We actually go with 5 healers+ret, for what it's worth. It's just been more stable for us. Even still we clear P3 with 6+ seconds left.

In order to maximize time on boss, the 2nd tank (our DK) taunts Steelbreaker after a fusion punch midway through P2, and I taunt right back, it gives him a sizeable threat lead... between that and his own dps for the first 30 seconds of P3, he doesn't have to worry about taunting at all, we get every second out of the first debuff. I take him back with ~1s left on the debuff on the other tank by hitting DP/RD/HoR all at once in a macro, since none of them are on GCD. I think I've seen the RD miss once, but haven't yet seen a double-resist. If the tank is at max melee range in front, and everyone else is at max melee range behind, they're at no risk of overload.

One trick that gains a few seconds, we have the "ramp up" classes switch over early. One DPS warrior to stack sunders, the boomkin to make sure that iFF and Earth and Moon debuffs are up right from the getgo, etc. It might not buy all that much time, but it does help to make sure that everyone's in full-swing already, maximizing every second on steelbreaker.

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Re: [25] Iron Council - Steelbreaker Tanking

Postby Worldie » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:01 am

We are going to do something very silly with this, using 4 tank phases, resistances and a druid with 80k HP. Will be fun.

I'm personally tanking first and third.
Fusion Punches hit for "only" 50k at this point, nowhere close to the 100k you suggest ;)
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