[10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby Seloei » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:00 am

For pitys sake, stop beating that dead horse with the stick. Let him rest.
Parry gib is a dead myth that died after warriors left Karazhan and Prince Malchezar.
It *was* a problem then, due to low geared warriors who couldn't guarantee shield block up all the time during p2 when he gains dualwield and got crushed in a row and died, since then they've added expertise and removed crushing blows altogether.

The usual boss swing timer is 2 seconds, debuffed that is 2.4. So if you, in all reality, get 3 parries in a row while swinging at 0.7s his melee attack speed haste CAN NOT exceed 30%. That is a boost, but it's not a tank killer. 30% haste means it will be 1.7s swing timer. Chances of you parrying THAT often to make his swing timer constantly 1.7s is too small. The haste doesn't have to be 30%, it can be just 5% or 10% also, depending when you parried.

Parry hasted gibs are a myth. They do not exist anymore.

edit: corrected the math, should be accurate now. Debuffed and with max parry haste, he hits like when you miss 2 judgements in a row. Also, when he parries your attacks, not the other way round
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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby Kerthal » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:27 am

I have killed Hodir 10 man hard mode 5 times now, without any helpful information for Paladin tanks. I find it hard to get the information needed for Paladins, since most are speaking in terms of theory and others are speaking in terms of "what they have heard".

I can tell you this:

I have tanked it successfully with frost resist and without. The only way I can compete with the threat of my dps is to stand in the white beams. On 10 man, typically if you are standing in the white beams, you are gaining someone elses (NPC wise buff as well...) However, from all of our testing and kills the white beams are the most TPS. If I get the white beam alone (this is in normal main tanking gear, high in dodge low in block) I can pull between 18-21k TPS on that encounter (Drops to about 15-16k in FR gear). The only thing that came close to catching me in threat was a fire mage. Basically, I use the same thing in 25 man now. We haven't attempted hard mode in 25 man yet, however threat is not a problem.

We only have one cooldown, it is why people cry that we are not as efficient as others. Here is how I handle Frozen Blows > I shield wall/Divine Prot the first one > Hand of Sac + Holy paladin DS second one > Pain Supression on the 3rd (Thats in both 10 and 25 man) then rinse and repeat. If one of these aren't available, we just deal with it. The damage isn't unhealable...it just kind of sucks to heal it.

My buffs> In 10 man I use Seal of Blood and hit food. Seal of Corruption does seem to be more threat over time however, SoB is a lot more bursty so it proves to be more threat for that encounter. When we do it this coming week I can post our webstats if people wish.

<3 hopefully this information helps.
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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby Spamdrew » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:19 pm

Ah threat number and how people love to pull them out of their arse.

20k sustained threat (which is the only relevant measure of threat) means that if you are doing entirely holy damage you are putting out (20/1.9/1.43) over 7k dps. In fact the best Prot pally result I can find on WoW Meter has a sustained 11k tps for the fight (Boèndal) now he is using vengeance so it is probable that you can improve on this result but saying that you put out 18-21k threat is plain dumb and makes the rest of your post look bad.

Note: I freely admit that we have not quite made Hodir Hard mode yet (3.2 minutes last attempt)
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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby Soldierxx » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:49 am

Is it recommended to use vengeance or blood for threat on this fight?
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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby Avengeance » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:27 am

the beams only buff haste - haste doesnt affect much of our threat unless you run SoB. If you want buffs to boost your TPS, you are after the storm buff, and 25 stacks of Singed on boss.
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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby Meloree » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:38 am

Kerthal wrote:I can pull between 18-21k TPS on that encounter (Drops to about 15-16k in FR gear).


WWS or it didn't happen.

Alternatively, if you're looking at Omen's instant TPS, and picking the number you see when you have storm power, a beam, using SoB, and happen to have tricks or MD going off at the same time, I totally believe the figure, and it's completely useless.

Soldierxx wrote:Is it recommended to use vengeance or blood for threat on this fight?


Personally, I use vengeance, 2 pieces of frost resist, and I don't stand in beams or regularily get buffs aside from the occasional toasty fire. I generally pull in the neighbourhood of 10k sustained personal tps, but the actual ceiling is a little bit higher due to tricks. Generally, I move Hodir to near a beam and turn his back to it, so melee gets it. Nobody has threat issues thus far.

Tuesday's Hodir: http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/5314908#damageout (I did get one Storm Power buff somehow)

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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby moduspwnens » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:36 am

The trick to gettin that cloud is that Hodir doesn't have that movement mechanic that other bosses have that when you move into their hitbox, they walk slowly away and then turn around. Hodir remains stationary. So, when your selfish melee hog the cloud, just step into Hodir's hitbox and you'll get it, too. This works until one of the runes appears on the ground, and then you move him... but that's melee's fault anyway.
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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby Loras » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:15 am

How does exactly the Storm Cloud buff scale? From what I've seen/read/tested, it can stack up to 4 (540%) ot something stacks, and it's supposed to award 1 stack every few seconds. However, sometimes I've been strictly hugging the cloud bearer and still had 1 stack only for the whole duration, other times I was nowhere near them and I had 2-4 stacks...
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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby moduspwnens » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:22 am

Loras wrote:How does exactly the Storm Cloud buff scale? From what I've seen/read/tested, it can stack up to 4 (540%) ot something stacks, and it's supposed to award 1 stack every few seconds. However, sometimes I've been strictly hugging the cloud bearer and still had 1 stack only for the whole duration, other times I was nowhere near them and I had 2-4 stacks...


That's because you can only give "the power" to a limited amount of people. Here's the 10 man version: http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=65123. The 25 man version allows 6.
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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby Avengeance » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:24 am

The stacks doesnt mean the crit dmg bonus is multiplied by how many stacks - it means how many charges left you can give out to your allies. Basically the NPC will cast it on a random person (starts off with 4 stacks in 10 men, 6 in 25 men). As soon as you touch other players while you have the debuff, you lose a stack per player buffed, and they get the buff.
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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby amh » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:24 am

Loras wrote:How does exactly the Storm Cloud buff scale? From what I've seen/read/tested, it can stack up to 4 (540%) ot something stacks, and it's supposed to award 1 stack every few seconds. However, sometimes I've been strictly hugging the cloud bearer and still had 1 stack only for the whole duration, other times I was nowhere near them and I had 2-4 stacks...


Nah, doesn´t work quite like that. The one getting the buff from the shaman gets six stacks, but his own damage doesn´t increase. When another player comes into range of the buffed player, the buffed player will give away one stack. That stack gives the other player 135% critical damage-increase. The damage-increase doesn´t stack.

The only time you´ll see more than one stack is if you´re the one carrying it around. They´re both called Storm (cloud and power), so it´s easy to misunderstand it mid-fight. I´ve set up PowerAuras to tell me when I have Storm Power, makes it easy to tell the difference.
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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby Loras » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:54 am

I was suspecting it's working as you described it, just for some quite strange reason I was having the impression that I've read once the tooltip saying 540% crit dmg increase. Either a bug, or Loras is dumb, or had drunk too much beer (I believe and I also hope it's the 3rd) :) Thanks for the feedback.

Ah, also one mor question, if I may hijack the thread. Where do you tank him in 25 (not necessarily hard mode)? We used to kite him around the room all the time, a friend prot warr from another realm (quite a progressive guild) says that they're keeping him stationary in the middle of the room, I suggested tanking him in the corner where the extra Cache of loot is (based on the Tankspot video), we killed him using the last method, but I'm open for suggestions.
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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby amh » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:27 am

Over by the rare cache works very well, because it forces the npcs to come in closer. That way you get beams and fires closer together, not to mention all the npcs will be in range for the ranged to break them out quickly after a flash freeze.
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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby Soldierxx » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:08 am

In 25 man hard mode, how many people actually use frost res gear, is it really needed?
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Re: [10] Hodir hard mode TPS?

Postby amh » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:43 am

We're using frost-res aura, nothing else. 3:01 so far.. qq :/
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