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[25] Razorscale - Raid setup and positioning

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[25] Razorscale - Raid setup and positioning

Postby Valynus » Mon May 25, 2009 10:42 pm

Hi dear fellows,

We're currently trying in my guild to down Razorscale, supposed to be one of the easiest bosses in Ulduar.

We should be fine geared and prepared, mostly with ilvl 213 from Naxx 25 and some pieces of Ulduar 10 but we're getting wiped over and over in phase 1 by the adds engaging the raid: we are eating the watchers chaing ligthtnings, sometimes a cyclon from a wandering sentinel... I think in general we are having trouble to position the raid initially in the encounter so here my questions go:

1.- Which should be the recommended setup for the Raid? We're currently getting 4 tanks (including me), 6 healers and rest DPS. Think this is not probably the issue.

2.- Perhaps our big issue: where should we position at the start? We are mostly located between the big circle and the cannons, tanks spreaded across this line and awaiting for the adds to come. DPS and Healers use to be more or less stacked behind the cannons. We have no trouble the first pulls but it gets really hard while the fight gets forward and the tanks find theirself having to engage multiple pulls spreading in their way to the Raid. Somekind of positioning diagram for our raid would be very welcome.

3.- Should our DPS/casters be spread in order to avoid most damage coming from chain lightning? If so, what distance?

Thank you in advance.
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Re: [25] Razorscale - Raid setup and positioning

Postby Argali » Mon May 25, 2009 10:52 pm

4 tanks is probably 1 too many.

On my last successful attempt, we had 2 evenly split groups - right and left. 1 tank on the right, one tank on the left, and one tank in the middle whose duty was to pick up the large whirlwindy dude. Middle tank was all by himself, in range of healers from both groups, and whirlwind dudes should be dpsed by ranged only.

Chain lightning can be interrupted, melee should be doing it. Ofc, focus on the mobs that do them first.
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Re: [25] Razorscale - Raid setup and positioning

Postby Levantine » Mon May 25, 2009 11:00 pm

Rogues with interrupt specs <3

The only time I saw any chain lightning at all was when they were pewpewing razorscale on a landing and I hamfingered my interrupt.
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Re: [25] Razorscale - Raid setup and positioning

Postby Valynus » Mon May 25, 2009 11:21 pm

Thank you for your comments but actually I would need more specific information.

For example, "middle", "right" and "center" look to me something very relative given the huge area where the fight occurs.

Also, I'd like to know if you spread somehow your DPS/healers in order to avoid the chain lightning in case it is casted.

Do you use to get a tank dedicated to exclusively engage the Sentinels? I see conflicts on a tank pulling both Sentinels and Watchers...

Let me include a little mockup of our positioning for phase 1 if it serves you as reference:

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Re: [25] Razorscale - Raid setup and positioning

Postby Seloei » Tue May 26, 2009 12:37 am

"left" "middle" "right" are relative to where the drills come out. The tank on the left will pick up the drill from the left. The tank on the right will pick up at the drill on the right etc. Sometimes you get drills at the same spot, but then either the middle, left or right one should say on vent which one his taking.

The raid should scatter around the whole playfield with one dps or healer going back when 3 turrets are ready to open and the 4. is coming in 10 seconds. Theres no need to stand next to the turrets all the time, actually it's better not to since when the drake gets grounded before lifting off he does a flame breath in front which (if i remember correctly) hits all the turrets and anyone near it.

Tell your melee to stunlock/interupt burn the watchers, they melee for 3k on rogues which is not *that* bad. If the melee zergs those down without care of agro, there will be a lot less chain lightnings. As was said earlier, their bigger job is top stop the chain lightnings being cast.

Ranged have to burn down the big sentinel that spawns ASAP because if he whirlwinds he can easily even kill off a tank fast. Does disarm work on him? Maybe it does to stop the whirlwind, but they die before they can do it usually.

If you have the dps, then there should be deadtime between waves and you should never get more than one wave up at a time, maybe a few leftovers but never more than 4. If you have that many, either your dps is slacking at switching targets or their just not good enough.
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Re: [25] Razorscale - Raid setup and positioning

Postby amh » Tue May 26, 2009 12:38 am

You can afford to adapt a much more offensive positioning. Hard to time a nice, clean landing when the adds are still running across the field. Also stops the small ones from chaining your raid too much, since you´ll have interrupters on top of them right away.

- If you use three tanks, spread them out as illustrated. Middle tank needs to focus on the Sentinel (big, single mob), cause that bastard will kill your raid a lot. He´ll also have to pick up the pack that spawns behind the Sentinel. The Sentinels don´t spawn all that often, so the middle tank can afford to pop a cooldown is he/she gets a pack at the same time as a Sentinel. This tank should be the third in your tank-rotation on Razorscale, just so that his/her cooldowns are available again when needed.

- If four tanks, as illustrated. Sentinel-tank can just fart around until the Sentinel spawns.

- Give each tank a melee dps with a short-cooldown interrupt. Focus down the small ones. Priority is always
1. (Sentinel, ranged only)
2. Small ones
3. Slightly bigger ones

You can either
- Stack your raid up around the area where the middle tank is. Stacking up means slightly more movement from fires, but everyone will be in range of most healers all the time. I´ve never tried this, so I can´t recommend it.

- Spread out evenly outside of the big circle on the ground. Ranged allocations does not matter all that much, cause all they *need* to focus on is the Sentinel. Melee (at least interrupters) need to be spread out evenly across all spawn-points. If your interrupts aren´t 100% reliable, either spread out very good, or stand in pairs. Pairs is a lot easier to master, and you won´t chain the lightning too far.

Keep out of the middle(!). No need to have fires stacked there, melee dps and fires don´t go along well. Remind your pet-classes to recall their pets after Razorscale takes off the first time, because they can be fire-targets as well.

Use a dps-class capable of self-healing to deal with the launchers. No need to run back to activate one every time it gets ready. Wait for three, then run back and activate. Shouldn´t have to wait all that long for the fourth one at that point. Killing off all the adds isn´t vital before you ground Razorscale, but you definitely don´t want to have any Sentinels up.

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Re: [25] Razorscale - Raid setup and positioning

Postby Valynus » Tue May 26, 2009 12:51 am

Amh, this was awesomely illustrative (and nice your diagram reuse ;))

I've actually noticed how probably our strat was failing by awaiting for adds to come near the cannons instead of engaging them directly by their spawn area.

Perhaps we're going to try those great tips today hoping for better results.

Thank you all so much!
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Re: [25] Razorscale - Raid setup and positioning

Postby Valynus » Tue May 26, 2009 10:29 pm

Final Result: Razorscale down in total success.

My guild loves you. Thanks.
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Re: [25] Razorscale - Raid setup and positioning

Postby amh » Tue May 26, 2009 11:50 pm

Awesome, grats :)
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Re: [25] Razorscale - Raid setup and positioning

Postby oldboyz » Thu May 28, 2009 12:11 am

in P1
we let everyone inside the circle, just asking people to do not stay in the blue flams
quite easy for 3 tank to grab all dwarfs and park them in order to mass aoe

then P2. our tanks move her all along the circle cloclwise, still dps&healeur inside the circle
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