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[10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

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[10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

Postby Dantriges » Mon May 25, 2009 7:33 am

We have some problems in P1.

Raid at the door. 3 tanks

The tanks take the adds to Sara after the dps had some playtime with them.

Problems are MC on the tank going forward and seems we get overwhelmed by adds.

Can we do something different? I looked in the other Yogg threads, and couldn't find anything relevant to our issues...
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Re: Yogg Saron P1

Postby Seloei » Mon May 25, 2009 7:59 am

Re-opened the thread for P1 specifically.
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The problem you have with your raid now, is raid coordination and awareness, they are popping extra clouds. If you want a detailed reply how/what/where/when, take a peek into the already posted topics. Theres lots of good stuff there.
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Re: [10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

Postby Faro » Mon May 25, 2009 9:20 pm

I believe the frequency of the mind control has to do with how many adds are up, so if your tanks are constantly getting mind controlled and not purged (purge does remove the mc) then you definitely have too many adds up.
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Re: [10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

Postby Seloei » Tue May 26, 2009 12:26 am

Temporary mind control is casted by the guardians of yogg saron, if you are doing it right with noone opening up an extra cloud, you will only get a max of 2 mind controls at the same time. Assign atleast 3 to dispel them, preferably 2 of them are finishing off the adds in the middle and make sure dps knows to STOP dps at an assigned percentage. Find which works the best for your raid. 40/30/25/20% etc. Theres no way to not get mind controlled, pending a lucky use of the undead racial talent.

The reason why you are getting overwhelmed is because someone has touched the cloud, each time you touch it a new extra add will spawn, you can use it to spawn 2 at the start but after that it is a fast way to get a wipe incoming. Theres nothing to change the fact that your raid has no idea what they are doing and can't look around to see if a cloud is coming to them or not between changing on the next guardian.

Always at the start of P1 we have someone call out from what side the closest 2 clouds to the door are swirvling. "Ranged cloud from right/left, melee cloud from right/left" so that they know which side they should be keeping their screen pointed at.

You will wipe a LOT on phase1 until everyone learns to pay attention. The hardest part of dodging the clouds is for the tanks, if dps is overzealous and burns the add to 10% with full dots.
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Re: [10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

Postby PsiVen » Tue May 26, 2009 12:55 am

You will wipe a lot in phase 1. After you wipe at 5% in phase 3, you will wipe at least twice in phase 1. It is the Law of Yogg.

But yeah, assign a bunch of dispellers and make sure they get dispelled instantly. If every MC disappears right away there shouldn't be anyone getting clouds with it. In 10-man, you can assign a single person to dispels and have them watch to make sure they're not in a cloud.
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Re: [10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

Postby Albani » Tue May 26, 2009 3:28 pm

I'm guessing your(and everyone elses) biggest problem is raidmembers touching the clouds.

Unfortunately there is no way of knowing who does it, so basically you're stuck trying to "convince" your fellow raiders that green clouds are terrybad! Not only does it spawn an extra add, it also makes the adds spawn faster.

As said in many other posts, pop one guardian in the beginning, just to get started. If anyone touches a cloud after that you're in deep trouble.

And dps change on a health percentages suited for you're raiddps, have interrupters on their toes, and make sure that u get the first 8 adds killed ontop Sara.

Get this working and you can start working on P2,

GL=)
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Re: [10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

Postby PsiVen » Tue May 26, 2009 5:10 pm

Not only does it spawn an extra add, it also makes the adds spawn faster.


This is actually not true, some testing has found that she spawns based on her health. 100-60% is 15 seconds, 60-30% is 10 seconds, 30-0% is 5 seconds IIRC. Spawning an extra add at the beginning is just good practice because you're using otherwise dead time to shave a few seconds off the enrage.

The biggest problem we had learning Yogg25 was actually not bonus adds, but closing the deal on the last few. We had several wipes where 2 adds whiffed at 20-30% and we got swamped with 4 adds by the time we had another one ready to kill. Changing strategies to always tank them on top of Sara solved this particular problem.
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Re: [10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

Postby Dantriges » Tue May 26, 2009 5:44 pm

We get to p2 now, but we have too many adds, something like 4 to 5 at the end. It seems to me that´s not just a raidmember opening a few, unless it´s someone mindcontrolled running thru. Could be that we have problems, killing the last ones quickly.
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Re: [10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

Postby Seloei » Tue May 26, 2009 11:59 pm

The adds come at an increasing rate. 2 adds up is 'normal' if you don't pop any clouds at all, if you bring the last in fast you might just get 1.

4-5 adds -> someone touched atleast 1 cloud or the dps was SLOW to kill the last one
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Re: [10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

Postby Varmin » Wed May 27, 2009 5:25 am

If you trust your raid not to pop any clouds, having a rogue or druid stealth in and start the encounter by running over a cloud, lets you pop up 2 right away, making the end of your p1 a little smoother.
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Re: [10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

Postby Rocknord » Wed May 27, 2009 8:33 am

We use a camp Tank (ME - pally) and two ferry tanks who taunt them and pull them to middle. That way you dont have to worry about getting back quick enough if clouds get in the way. Also use classes who have ranged interrupt like mages and shadow priest to make sure adds dont stop and cast when moving to middle.


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Re: [10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

Postby Pallychick » Wed May 27, 2009 12:10 pm

we found there were too many variables involved when tanking at the door and kiting them to the middle (dots, long paths, mobs casting) to find the method reliable. we switched to tanking them in the middle and ranged moving around the outside circle of clouds. the patterns of the clouds are fixed and easy to learn. people dispelling MC's need to be quick here, however. melee could pop extra if an MC goes too long. oh warriors, blow your aoe fear before the fight :-P
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Re: [10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

Postby ZombieRitual » Wed May 27, 2009 12:21 pm

PsiVen wrote:You will wipe a lot in phase 1. After you wipe at 5% in phase 3, you will wipe at least twice in phase 1. It is the Law of Yogg.


SO UNBELIEVABLY TRUE! The night we got our first kill we had a 3% wipe in phase 3, then proceeded to fail in phase 1 the following few attempts. Finally killed the bastard about an hour later.
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Re: [10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

Postby Faro » Wed May 27, 2009 12:31 pm

PsiVen wrote:
Not only does it spawn an extra add, it also makes the adds spawn faster.


This is actually not true, some testing has found that she spawns based on her health. 100-60% is 15 seconds, 60-30% is 10 seconds, 30-0% is 5 seconds IIRC.


If this is true wouldn't it make sense to blow up 3 adds on her then take 2-4 of them low to blow up quickly? It would take a lot of control on the dps' part and a good chunk of healing from the volleys but it seems like you'd be able to get into phase 2 with 0 adds. For the record, we use the ferry strat in 25m and the "tank them in the center" strat on 10m.
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Re: [10/25] Specific Yogg-Saron P1 problem

Postby Jasari » Wed May 27, 2009 12:34 pm

Faro wrote:
PsiVen wrote:
Not only does it spawn an extra add, it also makes the adds spawn faster.


This is actually not true, some testing has found that she spawns based on her health. 100-60% is 15 seconds, 60-30% is 10 seconds, 30-0% is 5 seconds IIRC.


If this is true wouldn't it make sense to blow up 3 adds on her then take 2-4 of them low to blow up quickly? It would take a lot of control on the dps' part and a good chunk of healing from the volleys but it seems like you'd be able to get into phase 2 with 0 adds. For the record, we use the ferry strat in 25m and the "tank them in the center" strat on 10m.

If you have too many of them up at a time, you're also going to be getting a lot more MCs.

I think the best way to do it is to spawn one extra one at the start and then just take them as they come.
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