Ulduar minimum tank stats

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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby inthedrops » Wed May 20, 2009 11:45 am

I'd think it's actually hard to get much less than 50% avoidance even if you were trying to avoid avoidance gear, unless you're gearing up with block rating....which hopefully you aren't.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Belloc » Wed May 20, 2009 2:36 pm

I'd say that I have a pretty nice gear set on me and I find it hard to agree with you. Some players prefer health+armor over straight avoidance.

How's your threat? I'd hate to be missing one of my set bonuses, let alone two.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby guillex » Wed May 20, 2009 5:45 pm

*eyes thread discussion oddly*
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Mert » Thu May 21, 2009 6:43 am

Okay I spoke to my paladin class leader about this. The 4k threat thing is apparently unbuffed (though who exactly measures their unbuffed sustained threat I don't know) :lol:

As for the avoidance, I believe he's including miss in that figure which does make it slightly more reasonable, though from memory I think I also have less than 55% when you include miss... so meh, who knows?

Block cap is definitely a "nice to have" but then our guideline stats are intended to be "nice to have" rather than expected minimum requirements like I said before. It's just the closest thing I had that would help out with the OP's question. Personally I prefer to be block capped for things like the Pummelers, Freya's trash or anything like that. And while I take your point on things like Hodir that mitigating 2.5k from a 25k melee swing doesn't sound that great, folk would go much further for a guaranteed 10% mitigation so it's definitely nice, even if it doesn't necessarily do that much on paper. I would stop short of saying it's essential, but I personally would prefer to be there than get another 250 health or whatever. But then I'm often put on Freya's adds anyway...
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby rokkon » Thu May 21, 2009 7:16 am

Same thing for us Mert. If someone is way short of the min stats then it's a no-go but if someone meets most of them, is a bit shy of some, maybe needs to work on another, then yeah it'll do but need to start trying to reach those goals.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Belloc » Thu May 21, 2009 9:03 am

Mert wrote:Okay I spoke to my paladin class leader about this. The 4k threat thing is apparently unbuffed (though who exactly measures their unbuffed sustained threat I don't know) :lol:

As for the avoidance, I believe he's including miss in that figure which does make it slightly more reasonable, though from memory I think I also have less than 55% when you include miss... so meh, who knows?

Block cap is definitely a "nice to have" but then our guideline stats are intended to be "nice to have" rather than expected minimum requirements like I said before. It's just the closest thing I had that would help out with the OP's question. Personally I prefer to be block capped for things like the Pummelers, Freya's trash or anything like that. And while I take your point on things like Hodir that mitigating 2.5k from a 25k melee swing doesn't sound that great, folk would go much further for a guaranteed 10% mitigation so it's definitely nice, even if it doesn't necessarily do that much on paper. I would stop short of saying it's essential, but I personally would prefer to be there than get another 250 health or whatever. But then I'm often put on Freya's adds anyway...

I was including miss in my avoidance comments. The fact is that you have to focus on gearing for avoidance if you want to get much higher than 50%. This sacrifices threat and effective health. It's one way of gearing, but I won't say whether or not it's the right one.

This talk of avoidance really makes me wish my sig were updated. Every time I tried to update it, it would have the wrong stats =/ Oh. and apparently I forgot to take off my ret boots after our 10man 4 tower attempts.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby rokkon » Thu May 21, 2009 10:43 am

Belloc wrote:The fact is that you have to focus on gearing for avoidance if you want to get much higher than 50%. This sacrifices threat and effective health. It's one way of gearing, but I won't say whether or not it's the right one.


Really? I found just the opposite to be true. I basically enchant for defense, gem for stam. I hardly ever gem for avoidance and I always hover around 60% dodge + parry + block. When you figure chance to miss I'm almost always above 102.4% fully raid buffed.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Belloc » Thu May 21, 2009 11:39 am

rokkon wrote:
Belloc wrote:The fact is that you have to focus on gearing for avoidance if you want to get much higher than 50%. This sacrifices threat and effective health. It's one way of gearing, but I won't say whether or not it's the right one.


Really? I found just the opposite to be true. I basically enchant for defense, gem for stam. I hardly ever gem for avoidance and I always hover around 60% dodge + parry + block. When you figure chance to miss I'm almost always above 102.4% fully raid buffed.

Avoidance is Dodge+Parry+Miss. Block is not included.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby rokkon » Thu May 21, 2009 12:59 pm

Belloc wrote:Avoidance is Dodge+Parry+Miss. Block is not included.


Ahh Ok if he's talking about pure avoidance and no block then yeah I see your point. I just never understood why people would not include block when that is certainly part of pushing full hits off the hit table, which is the whole point of the magic 102.4%.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Mert » Fri May 22, 2009 8:12 am

It is confusing, but I find that most folks say avoidance to mean miss, parry and dodge (or sometimes "pure avoidance") and say block cap to mean 102.4%. But I've certainly heard it other ways too so apologies for the confusion.

Anyway, just now I'm wondering about taking the avoidance minimum off altogether, or at least lowering it because on reflection, 55% is really quite high and you guys are absolutely right. If my class leader wants to keep it in, I guess something like 48% might be better, assuming decent gear and not gemming for avoidance?
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Seloei » Fri May 22, 2009 9:07 am

Quite sure he was asking about starting ulduar "baseline stats", for that 10 man naxx gear is perfectly viable to do the first 2 area bosses, if you do the normal mode not hardmodes. There isn't a huge difference between 10man naxx and 25man naxx gear.

The first fights where the tanks really need good gear on 25man, i'd say are thorim / vezax. The rest are purely skill based. Maybe decon also needs a bit more gear than usual but the main death factor will be tantrum on dps, not the tank biting the bullet.

The bigger problem you will face is "sleepy healers" who have been lulled into slow-mode healing in naxxramas, not like it was in t5 and higher raids in tbc. You are going to probably wipe more often in 25man due to the fact that not a single heal lands on the tank in 5 seconds, than him eating 2 full strikes in a row (which, most hard hitting bosses, where you do need gear for, will kill even a 25man ulduar geared one)

If you want to baseline for 25man ulduar, they should have atleast 10man naxx epics with crit cap. That is, baseline as in the stats needed to progress through to the hard tanking fights which you can leave as last.

55% avoidance isn't that easily achieved also unless he will regem for it and use pure avoidance trinkets, i'd rather say 50% for starting (When i use full avoidance gear, i am only near 56%).
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Quaddrag » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:13 am

ok i have a question about block rating... how usefull is it really i hear majority off people sayin that avoidance is better? and what is the block cap ? also about the threat of 4k that seems low to me i do right around 5-6k TPS in 5m Heroics and between 6-8k in raids
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:30 pm

I haven't had to recruit a tank in a while, but last time I did, we were starting out Naxx 25 and I set the following minimums for another paladin:

45% Avoidance
22500 Armor (I think, but might've been 21000)
25000 Health

I'd probably bump health up to 28000 and avoidance up to 47.5% or 50% if I had to recruit another tank to bring into Ulduar, but the tank would be used exclusively for off-tanking.

Fully buffed, I'm carrying 40k health at just over 60% avoidance in my max avoidance gear. I don't gem the gear for avoidance though and I definitely don't have best-in-slot yet. Red sockets = prismatic stam (for now, but dodge/stam after) ; Yellow sockets = def/stam; Blue Sockets = stam.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Threatco » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:24 pm

Avoidance = Dodge + parry + defense miss + 5% miss.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby shindo1234 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:54 pm

Ok I've been reading what people have posted in this thread and what has been said in other places that I have read and I am belief that i have enough stats to OT Uld which my guild is starting to get into. I would like some opinions if that is okay. Thanks a lot

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Alexstrasza&n=Santcuff
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