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Ulduar minimum tank stats

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Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby rokkon » Mon May 18, 2009 4:38 pm

Is your guild forming baseline stats for bringing new tanks into Ulduar? Mine is and I'd like your input on what you consider baseline minimum to be useful tanking in Ulduar.

We are forming minimums for tanks in general, not just paladins. I will be asking other communities but if you have input on baselines for warrior tanks or even druids, that would be great too.

I realize this is a broad question, but I am looking for some general input so that our guidelines are based off of input from the tanking community in general and not just "off the top of our heads".
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Nikachelle » Tue May 19, 2009 5:45 am

10 or 25 man?
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Seloei » Tue May 19, 2009 5:48 am

baseline for 10man? crit cap and 30k buffed health.
baseline for 25man? atleast full 10man epic

That's for the siege and antechamber, thorim might need a bit better gear and hodir needs frost resist, freya/mimiron can be done in blues on 10man. Vezax/yogg are a level up on tank stats needed by a bigtime
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Jasari » Tue May 19, 2009 6:05 am

On 10 man there's no really tank gear check until Vezax. Better gear will help a lot on fights like Kologarn that deal pretty bursty damage, but we've done him with an undergeared alt with 26k hp as the 2nd tank.

I always tell people that the best way to figure out if you're geared enough for certain content is to try that content. If you run into a road block, you know that more gear will help, but at least you'll be farming some i219 gear while you're at it.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby rokkon » Tue May 19, 2009 6:47 am

Seloei wrote:baseline for 10man? crit cap and 30k buffed health.
baseline for 25man? atleast full 10man epic


I assume you mean at the 540 defense minimum? I guess a lot of it depends on your healers. If your tanks are in 10 man epics, and so are the healers, I don't see 25 man Ulduar going well.

And to answer Nik's question, I'm looking for input on both 10 and 25 man, but we mainly do 25 man raids.

My line of thinking is a tank should be able to survive 2 average hits without heals to make it realistically healable with similarly geared healers. We consistantly see 20k hits from bosses even in the 25 man siege antechamber. That would mean a tank should have around 40k buffed health as well as at the defense minimum of 540. Am I way off here?
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Snippy » Tue May 19, 2009 6:52 am

I say this and I know there's disagreement about the point, but not all tanks are created equal or the same.

You can't really just go with a baseline for all tanks. You're going to want a good mix of stats. Check out some of the stats of the guys who are on here running Ulduar and compare from there. I can without a doubt say that 30K HP is a necessity, but not at the expense of other stats. The last thing you want is a tank stacking HP to get into a raid. If you have tanks that aren't ready, make sure the guild is getting them thru previous 25 man content.

Also check out tankspot for other classes of tank -- tank stats. (I hope I didn't utter dirty words there)


And honestly keep in mind that NOT all tanks are created equal. DKs are going to tank some things better, warriers are going to tank some things better, and paladins will have a few things they excel in. Bring a good mix and while you're mastering content, just pick the tank who's best suited for the job. A great example - just put a DK on General, there's no need to play around with a warrior or paladin (or *gasp* druid).
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby inthedrops » Tue May 19, 2009 6:56 am

Jasari wrote:On 10 man there's no really tank gear check until Vezax. Better gear will help a lot on fights like Kologarn that deal pretty bursty damage, but we've done him with an undergeared alt with 26k hp as the 2nd tank.

I always tell people that the best way to figure out if you're geared enough for certain content is to try that content. If you run into a road block, you know that more gear will help, but at least you'll be farming some i219 gear while you're at it.


I agree with this, especially the bolded part. General is also a gear check for a paladin tank on 25 man (and probably warriors too). I'm not sure about Druids or DK's.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Mert » Wed May 20, 2009 2:59 am

I agree that for Ulduar, you skill > gear for sure. That said, my guild does have "guidelines" for what you should aim for in Ulduar, though they are only guidelines and serve as a target for our newer people to work toward rather than some form of minimum standard for entry.

For Tankadins, the guideline is:

30k unbuffed HP
24k unbuffed Armour
55% Avoidance
Block capped with Holy Shield up
4k TPS

Like was said above, the best thing to do really would be to take your best geared in and see if/when you hit a brick wall. Best of luck!
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby rokkon » Wed May 20, 2009 6:14 am

Thanks for your input Mert, that's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for, and it actually falls right in line with the stats I was toying with in my head. I was kind of surprised that nobody else seemed to be in a guild that at least has some minimum stats, my guild has done that for each role since BC for each new raid that comes out. We are not to the point yet we can carry a tank in 10 man gear through Ulduar 25, we are still progressing so we need our tanks if anything to carry more than their usual weight so to speak.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Mert » Wed May 20, 2009 7:03 am

Hehe, no worries. DK requirement is broadly the same, only with 45% avoidance I think. Warrior class leader hasn't checked the officer's forum where we've been discussing this yet and we don't have a bear so I can't help on those fronts I'm afraid.

Now I look at it, I think that TPS figure might be really quite low. I'm not the paladin class leader so I didn't set that, but I'll bring it up with him because I can see a decent DPS pulling off a paladin with only 4k sustained! Take that stat with a grain of salt I think :)
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Noodleguitar » Wed May 20, 2009 7:37 am

rokkon wrote:I assume you mean at the 540 defense minimum? I guess a lot of it depends on your healers. If your tanks are in 10 man epics, and so are the healers, I don't see 25 man Ulduar going well.


So if your tanks and healers have done 10 man Ulduar (ignoring hard modes) and have aqcuired a nice bit of the droppable gear, it's still not enough to start 25 man Ulduar? Seems odd, as you would have to start in Naxx-25, though if I'm not mistaken the gear from Ulduar-10 should be about the same or better than Naxx-25 stuff.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Nikachelle » Wed May 20, 2009 7:42 am

Noodleguitar wrote:
rokkon wrote:I assume you mean at the 540 defense minimum? I guess a lot of it depends on your healers. If your tanks are in 10 man epics, and so are the healers, I don't see 25 man Ulduar going well.


So if your tanks and healers have done 10 man Ulduar (ignoring hard modes) and have aqcuired a nice bit of the droppable gear, it's still not enough to start 25 man Ulduar? Seems odd, as you would have to start in Naxx-25, though if I'm not mistaken the gear from Ulduar-10 should be about the same or better than Naxx-25 stuff.


Ulduar 10 is either a bit above, or on parr with Naxx 25 gear. I think Rokkon meant that if the raid had Naxx 10 man gear that Ulduar 25 would not go well.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby rokkon » Wed May 20, 2009 7:51 am

Nikachelle wrote:Ulduar 10 is either a bit above, or on parr with Naxx 25 gear. I think Rokkon meant that if the raid had Naxx 10 man gear that Ulduar 25 would not go well.


Yeah that's what I meant. Of course now that it's pointed out, the poster I was responding to didn't specify whether he meant 10 man Naxx or 10 man Ulduar gear so there could be a little confusion there.

10 man Ulduar gear to 25 man Uldaur would certainly be doable but it's not really the intended progression even though in a lot of ways it makes more sense (learn the fights plus get Naxx 25 equivalent gear).
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Corman » Wed May 20, 2009 10:56 am

Mert wrote:I agree that for Ulduar, you skill > gear for sure. That said, my guild does have "guidelines" for what you should aim for in Ulduar, though they are only guidelines and serve as a target for our newer people to work toward rather than some form of minimum standard for entry.

For Tankadins, the guideline is:

30k unbuffed HP
24k unbuffed Armour
55% Avoidance
Block capped with Holy Shield up
4k TPS

Like was said above, the best thing to do really would be to take your best geared in and see if/when you hit a brick wall. Best of luck!


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Dang blockcap.

Blockcap imo is good and a paladin advantage, but not a deal breaker.
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Re: Ulduar minimum tank stats

Postby Belloc » Wed May 20, 2009 11:20 am

I agree -- block cap won't do much for paladins on Ulduar25 bosses. Ask Hodir or Vezax what they think about your block cap.

Block cap would be great for trash or adds (razorscale, thorim, freya, maybe even Yogg), though.

I'm also not so sure that the 55% avoidance given is accurate. I mean, unless I'm missing something glaringly obvious, Kungen of Ensidia only has 49.81% avoidance. I believe that me and the other prot paladin in my guild have a similar number.

45-50% avoidance is where you want to be for Ulduar 25. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
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