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[10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

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[10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby Aleph » Fri May 15, 2009 1:03 pm

Last night I co-tanked hard mode 10 man Thorim with a feral druid. It was the first time we've tried it as a guild. We were both having a problem where, after an unbalancing strike, if we taunted while he was casting lightning, we would not inherit the threat of the current tank. I tried both RD and HoR, and he tried his taunts, and it was consistently happening. I was sometimes getting an "immune" message but I'm not sure if it was from the taunt or something else.

I don't know if it's a hard mode issue, or a result of the recent hotfixes, but we never had this problem in 10 man normal or 25 man normal modes. Has anyone else experienced this issue? Do we just need to deal with it?
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Re: [10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby Fridmarr » Fri May 15, 2009 1:20 pm

Is Sif immune to taunts? If so, you'd see immune if she had your co tank targeted when you taunted with RD.
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Re: [10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby Splug » Fri May 15, 2009 1:24 pm

You're hitting diminishing returns on taunt - happens to us every now and again early on if we have some threat juggling to pick him up when he lands. Someone's rapid-firing it before your turn, and then when you try to he's built up immunity. Try again in about 10 seconds and it should be fine.

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Re: [10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby Aleph » Fri May 15, 2009 1:48 pm

Re: Sif and RD - this was happening even with HoR and Thorim targeted. I don't think Sif is tankable anyway.

Re: Taunt DR - this isn't it either, that was my first suspicion but on subsequent tries we coordinated taunts very closely over vent. This was happening well after the pull and continously during the fight. If either of us taunted after a strike but during the lightning, he would turn to that person until the forced agro wore off, and then would return to the previous tank. Omen reported no change in tank threat - the taunting tank did not pick up the previous tank's threat. Our threat output is pretty close, so to avoid the possibility of one person overtaking the other accidentally we had the offtank do significantly less threat while not tanking, and after a strike the active tank would stop all attacks, but the result was the same.

We're both used to taunting immediately after the strike in 10 and 25 man normal modes, so this oddity caught us by surprise and resulted in 3 wipes before we figured out what was going on.
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Re: [10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby Avengeance » Sat May 16, 2009 4:21 am

Try not to taunt Thorim when he lands or the hallway tank taunting him to start P2 earlier - this would contribute to the DR that might not have resetted by the time first unbalancing strike lands. It should just be a DR problem, I did him 2-3 weeks now on hard mode in 10 men and dont have the taunt failing issue except a DR issue.
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Re: [10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby Invisusira » Sat May 16, 2009 7:21 am

Yeah, we've run into this too. ONLY taunt when the debuff is applied, DR comes up really quick in this fight and you do NOT want to be sitting around tanking with the debuff later on in the fight.
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Re: [10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby Aleph » Sat May 16, 2009 11:48 am

I don't mean to be rude here but nobody seems to be actually reading all of what I've written. We are not running into DR. The taunt's force-agro-switch is applied. The threat modifier is not.

This is happening well after the pull. Not "5 seconds" well after... 8+ charges after. Each unbalancing strike gets 1 taunt, so unless unbalancing strikes is happening often enough to itself trigger the DR then it's completely not the issue. And if it is, then there's no helping it anyway.

Apparently nobody else has seen this specific problem, and we killed him anyway, so we'll just blame Blizzard's typical buggy implementation and deal with it.
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Re: [10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby Panzerdin » Sat May 16, 2009 12:17 pm

Other tricks you can use are to BoP him off yourself or your co-tank (and hope the DRs are sorted out afterwards), pop a cooldown and tank through it, or just die and be rezzed.
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Re: [10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby kram » Sun May 17, 2009 5:31 pm

I noticed this happen on auriaya on 10man today went to swap tanks on her and the first taunt only only gave the taunt effect and no threat.
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Re: [10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby PsiVen » Mon May 18, 2009 4:06 am

This probably isn't helpful, but I'm sure I have never seen this happen using usually HoR for taunting (and sometimes RD as backup).
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Re: [10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby semp » Mon May 18, 2009 8:03 am

In our hour or so worth of attempts on this hard mode we kept coming up short (sub 10% wipes). Any general tips for this guy? We only had a shaman and paladin healing, so not to many damage reduction abilities outside those from the tanks (war/druid). We were having the feral druid take the unbalancing strike, then go cat to squeeze out more DPS for the first part of the fight. We were melee heavy DPS wise, which can make chain lightnings tricky. We beat the U10 Hodir timer by a good 30 seconds, so the DPS should be good nough for Thorim. Any suggestions?
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Re: [10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby Avengeance » Mon May 18, 2009 3:27 pm

Try run 3 healer just for that extra cooldown/healing towards the end.
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Re: [10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby Belloc » Mon May 18, 2009 4:39 pm

Aleph wrote:I don't mean to be rude here but nobody seems to be actually reading all of what I've written. We are not running into DR. The taunt's force-agro-switch is applied. The threat modifier is not.

This is happening well after the pull. Not "5 seconds" well after... 8+ charges after. Each unbalancing strike gets 1 taunt, so unless unbalancing strikes is happening often enough to itself trigger the DR then it's completely not the issue. And if it is, then there's no helping it anyway.

Apparently nobody else has seen this specific problem, and we killed him anyway, so we'll just blame Blizzard's typical buggy implementation and deal with it.


I have two guesses:
First, I'll suggest that, upon taunting, your previous tank is continuing his threat rotation and quickly regaining the threat lead, making it appear that there was no threat gain from the taunt. Do not discount this idea, because I see it happen all the time. It's the number one reason that I stop attacking when I know another tank has taunted.

Second, you were quite likely running into diminishing returns on taunts (hence the immune message) after a while. Until very recently, Thorim would use his unbalancing strike irregularly. They hotfixed the ability so that it should be cast less often enough that taunts will not diminish if you are only using one taunt per strike.

Best of luck.

semp wrote:In our hour or so worth of attempts on this hard mode we kept coming up short (sub 10% wipes). Any general tips for this guy? We only had a shaman and paladin healing, so not to many damage reduction abilities outside those from the tanks (war/druid). We were having the feral druid take the unbalancing strike, then go cat to squeeze out more DPS for the first part of the fight. We were melee heavy DPS wise, which can make chain lightnings tricky. We beat the U10 Hodir timer by a good 30 seconds, so the DPS should be good nough for Thorim. Any suggestions?

Move out of lightning strikes, have a paladin with frost resistance aura on. Only things I can suggest.
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Re: [10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby Lucius » Tue May 19, 2009 2:30 am

First week we did this was simple, took about 3-4 pulls. However when we did it last week I was running into similar problems. After the first few times I thought our druid was just overtaking me again, and since it was the very first tank transition of the fight I was fairly sure it wasn't DR. To give an example, at one point I taunted, blew wings, started my max threat rotation, the druid switched to caster and battle ressed a dps then he got agro back while still in caster form. We eventually downed it, but took a good 2 hours of attempts (although that was also due to new dps learning to dodge lightning :( )
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Re: [10] Thorim hard mode - taunt oddness.

Postby Non » Tue May 19, 2009 7:16 am

I had the same problem on Yogg last night. I was one of the ferry tanks moving the adds to Sara on phase 1. 2-3 times I lost all my aggro on them halfway to the middle. NO I WASN'T MC. I watched omen and all my threat was gone.....
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