[10/25] General Vezax

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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby Snippy » Tue May 19, 2009 8:02 am

cordelia wrote:Questions:


(3) Is he tauntable? How about bringing 2-3 tanks and taunting back and forth while using CD's to reduce damage taken?


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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby Splug » Tue May 19, 2009 8:23 am

cordelia wrote:Questions:

(1) Is threat an issue? Can you tank with Seal of Light to reduce healing?

(2) Does BoSac restore mana?

(3) Is he tauntable? How about bringing 2-3 tanks and taunting back and forth while using CD's to reduce damage taken?

(4) How much raid damage is there? Is it viable to have the primary raid healer be a disc priest that stands in shadow crash to spam bubbles?

(5) Does Stormstrike restore mana?

(6) Does Rapture restore mana?

1) Yes: casters will be getting a +damage, +haste, -mana cost pit to stand in, which means they're generating a large amount of threat unless your strategy involves wanding to save mana for the animus
2) I don't remember sacrifice ever restoring mana, unless through spiritual attunement. Did you mean sanctuary? If so, I don't think it does but I'm not certain.
3) No.
4) None if done correctly.
5) No, but enhancement shaman have said they get plenty from just shamanistic rage.
6) No.

Non-hard mode for this fight really isn't as bad as it sounds. Even hard mode... really doesn't strike me as that bad. The main problem is the lack of a teleport to Vezax's area, and the extremely long run down to it (and obnoxious trash). Admittedly, the area is very well designed and I like the effect of the descent into madness, but it's getting close to needing bug mounts or something.

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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby inthedrops » Tue May 19, 2009 9:33 am

Here's a recent parse showing Sanc returning some mana.

http://wowwebstats.com/dsp1gpwv3fkee?s=210908-296391&a=x20000000174549a#ener
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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby Dalithe » Tue May 19, 2009 9:52 am

Was beat to it. Updated though.

Checked mine and have the same 20k plus mana from Sanctuary and 1 tick from Revitalize from Druid heals.

If non-paladin stuff is wrong, don't hate me, I'm not perfect.

/r
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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby Jasari » Tue May 19, 2009 9:53 am

As other have said, Blessing Sanctuary restores mana on this fight. The BoSac typo may have confused people.
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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby Belloc » Tue May 19, 2009 11:40 am

I've heard that rapture, while having a reduced effect, also works.
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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby Belloc » Tue May 19, 2009 12:09 pm

Joanadark wrote:
Mark of the Faceless will only target ranged, yes, just like Shadow Crash.

If you try to stack all the ranged on the boss though, he will use it on the melee. There's a minimum number of valid targets for his abilities.


Minimum number of players who must be out of melee range for Mark of the Faceless and Shadow Crash to never be cast against the people who are in melee range:

10-man: 4
25-man: 7


I can't speak for 25-man, but we've always had 3 at range on 10-man. I've heard that 8 is the number for 25.
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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby semp » Tue May 19, 2009 12:14 pm

[25] Hardmode. I hear this is an absolute dps race of a hardmode. We burn down the non-hardmode fight in about 6-6.5 minutes. At what point should we even start to attempt hardmode?
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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby Helterskeltr » Sat May 30, 2009 10:56 pm

Here's a question:

Regardless of Divine Plea not being able to restore mana throughout the fight... Why not keep it popped simply for the constant 3% DR if you're glyphed for it? The few WWS parses I've looked at with a Pally MT, I did not see them use it, despite that they were indeed glyphed for it.

It may have been that they were in group with a Disc priest that provided Grace anyways, -- but otherwise am I just missing something?
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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby Seloei » Sun May 31, 2009 12:42 am

Unless you have a mod that says if you have DP up or not, you might miss it out because if your kiting him you are away from the boss for 13s+ and the buff lasts for 15s. It might drop off and you may not even notice it. Most use it, who know about it.
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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby MrDuck » Sun May 31, 2009 5:28 am

Helterskeltr wrote:Here's a question:

Regardless of Divine Plea not being able to restore mana throughout the fight... Why not keep it popped simply for the constant 3% DR if you're glyphed for it? The few WWS parses I've looked at with a Pally MT, I did not see them use it, despite that they were indeed glyphed for it.

It may have been that they were in group with a Disc priest that provided Grace anyways, -- but otherwise am I just missing something?

I'll be a little offtopic, but ya say grace doesn't stack with Divine Plea? If I've missed something, i'm sorry, thought i'd knew it if there was such a thing ^^

Anyway, hopefully gonna attempt general today for the first time, right into 25man. Is it worth trying with 1/2 SA or should i drop the idea already? I've seen reports here on MTadin about either 2/2 being barely enough and some saying 1/2 cuts it, so i'm still unsure, but I don't wanna waste our precious raidtime on finding out it's pointless.
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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby Joanadark » Sun May 31, 2009 5:31 am

Questions:

(1) Is threat an issue? Can you tank with Seal of Light to reduce healing?

The damage is bursty and very spaced out. SoL wouldnt do much good at all. And threat is still a factor.

(2) Does BoSac restore mana?

Yes. But you have to get hit of course.

(3) Is he tauntable? How about bringing 2-3 tanks and taunting back and forth while using CD's to reduce damage taken?

No. He isnt tauntable. Also, dimishing returns on taunt were created to prevent exactly what you are describing.

(4) How much raid damage is there? Is it viable to have the primary raid healer be a disc priest that stands in shadow crash to spam bubbles?

There is near-zero raid damage until the Animus comes out. While the Animus is active there is a ton of raid damage. Basically, on 25-man, 2 paladin healers solo heal the tank for the entire encounter. Druids can melee the boss until they get a clearcasting proc and toss out a single heal too. But mostly all your other healers just AFK auto-swing waiting for the Animus to come out. When he comes out they blow all their reserves and throw out everything they have to keep the raid alive to the increasing shadow damage as the DPS races to kill it before they run out of mana. When the animus is dead, anyone who has anything left heals the tank until victory.
So yes, its not only viable to have a disc priest for shadow crash shields, its one of the primary ways you defeat the saronite animus raid damage successfully.

(5) Does Stormstrike restore mana?

No. Only Shamanistic Rage does for enhancement shamans.

(6) Does Rapture restore mana?

No.
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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby Joanadark » Sun May 31, 2009 5:33 am

If you're working on this encounter there are a few tricks you can use to help. First and foremost, stack your raid with as many mages as you can get and have them spec 19/0/52, they do an incredible amount of damage on this fight and as frost they consume very little mana. Paladins - spec into Divine Sacrifice & Divine Guardian, also be sure to run your T8 4pc for the set bonus, for roughly 500 mana your sacred shield will absorb a huge amount of damage. Shadow Priests - spec into Improved Vampiric Embrace, even though your healing is low while in shadow crashes, it will still help during Profound Darkness.
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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby MrDuck » Sun May 31, 2009 1:25 pm

Okay, we've tried with our DK to just IBF through the surges, that went rather fine, but threat was a huge issue, so i've decided to take over.

Gotta say, with 1/2 SA, i could run my full rotation for about 2 minutes until i've had to drop consecration out. Threat wasn't a big issue, though when I used salv+trinkets to survive one of surges, a mage who was apparently slow to watch omen and use invisibility just ate it.
There's one problem, when i use my trinkets (valor medal+heart of iron), I get to sick avoidance levels (I usually take 2-3 frozen blows hits altogether on hodir kills), and use salv in case a hit gets through, while also being loaded with bubbles from our disco priest. However, our disco priest died (Shadow Crash /wave...it apparently IS rocket surgery), and there comes a hit for 41,2k...gg, I survived with what, 1,5k hp? Now, that wouldn't probably be an issue if the disco priest lived, but it seems i'll need some external cooldowns afterall, if only for the threat loss which can hurt on this fight.

However, it seems that Dark Rune(EDIT: just noticed the 15min cooldown, nevermind:P) works on this fight, the damage from the thing is laughable, while the mana gained is something that can keep one up for some time, so I'm thinking about using that while keeping 1/2 SA, but i guess it's not worth the hassle and time in scholomance.

Now I'll probably respec and see how it works out on Tuesday when we have 4 hours just for vezax with 2/2 SA, so this is just a few ideas I've got after our few tries we've had today.
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Re: [10/25] General Vezax

Postby PsiVen » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:42 am

So, as much as I hate the idea of wasting healers' mana by taking surges in the face, we've been doing just that in 25-man for our hard mode attempts for a few reasons:

- It greatly simplifies the shadow crash positioning, and dodging shadow crashes is by far the largest learning curve for the fight.
- It simplifies healer movements, in that anyone who isn't trying to use crashes stands still the whole fight.
- It removes the possibility for melee to utterly fail and get range on Vezax long enough to be hit by something.
- It removes the possibility for the tank to be shadow crashed. This happened three times in a row and is why we made the switch.

I still maintain that you should always kite in 10-man. But the odds of someone making a mistake are far greater in 25-man, and because the Animus lives for about twice as long it is a MUCH harder fight that demands efficient attempts.

[25] Hardmode. I hear this is an absolute dps race of a hardmode. We burn down the non-hardmode fight in about 6-6.5 minutes. At what point should we even start to attempt hardmode?

I saw a kill video where Vezax was under 10% when the Animus came out, which is the 4-minute mark. Our best attempts have put him at about 30-35%, which seems very comfortable. The real question is whether your DPS can maintain that and still have the mana to push out 12M damage in 2 minutes, without ever getting hit by shadow crashes.
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