Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby Jasari » Wed May 20, 2009 5:55 am

Panzerdin wrote:Blizzard put it there and made it do that, it's only reasonable to assume they expect you to use it in that manner.


So they expected us to use the double ShoR, the disc priest reflective shield exploit, the various "double your gold" exploits that have popped up over the years, the MC insta-big Void Reaver Exploit, etc, etc ,etc.

It's obviously not intended and is a bug. I'm sure you won't get banned for doing it, but it's still an exploit. I won't allow anyone in my guild to use it.

[edit]
and babyspicing the base is definitely not needed in P4. I've never had trouble seeing rockets landing at my feet, because I actively look for them. The most annoying part of P4 is moving during laser barrage, and even that is manageable enough.
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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby Snippy » Wed May 20, 2009 6:18 am

Babyspice can be used on anything. Its not an exploit.

It does have its drawbacks. It makes the base smallers and the therefore the hit box is smaller. This will result in melee standing what would be considering "inside" the boss. There's a chance that they can get pew pew lazered to death by being "inside" the boss instead of behind it.

An exploit is a use that Blizzard never intended and knowingly using it. A good example was Shaman and Sentry totem to break falls. This allowed Shaman to access areas around where the current Naxx is that they otherwise would not have had access to. Another example would be manipulated a bosses position by use of ground clutter to evade the "norm" strat for a boss. For example, Heroic CoT - you used to be able to run in there, let the instance sit for 30 mins. Come back and you'd have all the time in the world to get your 30 min Timed Drake. Exploit!

This is a creative use. And it has its drawbacks. Believe me, I'm sure Blizzard is aware of the issues with the boss doing what it is in regard to position.
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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby Jasari » Wed May 20, 2009 6:24 am

Snippy wrote:Babyspice can be used on anything. Its not an exploit.

It does have its drawbacks. It makes the base smallers and the therefore the hit box is smaller. This will result in melee standing what would be considering "inside" the boss. There's a chance that they can get pew pew lazered to death by being "inside" the boss instead of behind it.

An exploit is a use that Blizzard never intended and knowingly using it. A good example was Shaman and Sentry totem to break falls. This allowed Shaman to access areas around where the current Naxx is that they otherwise would not have had access to. Another example would be manipulated a bosses position by use of ground clutter to evade the "norm" strat for a boss. For example, Heroic CoT - you used to be able to run in there, let the instance sit for 30 mins. Come back and you'd have all the time in the world to get your 30 min Timed Drake. Exploit!

This is a creative use. And it has its drawbacks. Believe me, I'm sure Blizzard is aware of the issues with the boss doing what it is in regard to position.


Babyspicing the middle so that laser barrage never goes off has no downside and is obviously an exploit. I don't understand how you could possibly argue otherwise.
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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby PsiVen » Wed May 20, 2009 7:23 am

He fails to spin up half the time in P2, which is a bad thing because the barrage is a reprieve from much of the bursty raid damage. I doubt it has anything to do with baby spice, and I further doubt that trying to reproduce it is even a good idea.

On the other hand, baby spicing the bottom in P4 so that his graphic shrinks sounds like an intended use for the item, even though it may be an oversight that it's usable on bosses. It's certainly an oversight that the tank can't see any indicator of a rocket strike in the face...
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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby Jasari » Wed May 20, 2009 7:27 am

Yeah, to clarify, I don't think babyspicing the bottom is anything close to an exploit. I don't think it's required... well I know it's not required because Ive never used that strat and have never died to missiles. But I do agree that the graphic should stand out a little more.

I haven't tested the whole babyspicing the middle/P2 to cancel Laser Barrage. But it it truly works, I do consider that an exploit and not a "creative use of game mechanics".
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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby Snippy » Wed May 20, 2009 7:38 am

PsiVen wrote:He fails to spin up half the time in P2, which is a bad thing because the barrage is a reprieve from much of the bursty raid damage. I doubt it has anything to do with baby spice, and I further doubt that trying to reproduce it is even a good idea.

On the other hand, baby spicing the bottom in P4 so that his graphic shrinks sounds like an intended use for the item, even though it may be an oversight that it's usable on bosses. It's certainly an oversight that the tank can't see any indicator of a rocket strike in the face...

This ...

Jasari, The discussion previous was about the bottem... why would you turn it around and say the middle is what I was refering to. It looks like you're looking for a fight. You won't get it from me.
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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby Jasari » Wed May 20, 2009 8:19 am

Snippy wrote:Jasari, The discussion previous was about the bottem... why would you turn it around and say the middle is what I was refering to. It looks like you're looking for a fight. You won't get it from me.


Oh, sorry:

If during his 'Spinning Up' you throw a baby spice he won't barrage at all, this way well be the same in P4 too. Somewhat trivialising the movement factor. Wasn't able to test it though as our group wasn't our full raid group and we never made it through P3.

The babyspice to cancel barrage feels very much like an exploit and not a solution

Blizzard put it there and made it do that, it's only reasonable to assume they expect you to use it in that manner.

Yes it is an exploit, but in the current state of P4 from what I've read (having to use spice on the base to avoid missile strikes) it's a solution to a problem which blizzard are fully aware of yet have failed to fix.

Go go creative use of game mechanics.

Four consecutive posts about baby spicing to avoid laser barrage, followed by your post:
Babyspice can be used on anything. Its not an exploit.


I thought that's what you were referring to, sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby Belloc » Wed May 20, 2009 11:10 am

Panzerdin wrote:Blizzard put it there and made it do that, it's only reasonable to assume they expect you to use it in that manner.

To cancel the most dangerous ability used in the fight? Seriously, without that ability, the fight is an EASY win. That single ability is what makes the fight difficult.

If you can cancel it, it's an exploit.

I have no problem with using baby spice on the base (so you can see rocket strikes better), but using it on the midsection to cancel spinning up would be a huge exploit. As it is, we've never used either; I'd prefer not to lose more melee from standing too close to the boss during a laser barrage.
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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby Threatco » Fri May 22, 2009 9:13 am

Downed Mimiron last night for first time.

Me Holy paladin. I started the fight with Rf to hold threat until first plasma blast then bubbled it off to the DK who tanked the rest of the fight. I healed DK tank during the final 2 plasma blasts. Phase 3 and 4 healed the hunter ranged tank.

Holy Priest
Resto Shaman
Resto Druid (Bomb-bot rooter)

Unholy DK tank.

2x Fury Warrior. (Assault-bot bashers and magnet tossers)
Survival Hunter (ranged tank)
Marksman Hunter (Bomb-bot assassin)
Arcane Mage (Bomb-bot assassin)


I'll be honest it took a lot of tries.

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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby Mozen » Fri May 22, 2009 10:11 pm

I would imagine baby-spicing the feet in P4 is a bad idea. Due to the smaller hitbox, the feet will move closer to you, making you "eat into" the chest hitbox, you may very well be deemed in front of the barrage for the duration of the spice---i.e. guaranteed death unless you DS+taunt.

I have no problems moving out of his barrage in P4, but die more to the shockwave at the end of P4 than to the barrage; because I'm usually also responsible for calling out the rocket launches, with rockets, spinning up, shockwave, finding openings in the mine field, I sometimes miss one of them when I'm tired.

And you do get tired when you've just spent close to six hours in Ulduar... :oops:
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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby heuvarius » Fri May 22, 2009 11:56 pm

The last phase is really about everyone paying attention and making quick judgements on whether to run with the turning barrages or run the reverse direction and get out of the range of the barrages as he is spinning up. If you are standing directly in front of him when he's spinning up, i find the easiest is to just run straight through him and pull him backwards a step or two.

One thing that I've found to be really useful as well, at the start of p4 both the bottom and the top part retains their aggro from their respective phases earlier. It is much easier healing wise to taunt the head and have all your dps on the head to use their threat dumping abilities as soon as phase 4 engages.
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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby Tiandelin » Sat May 23, 2009 6:40 am

Our melee dps complains that using baby spice on the base makes it harder to see shock blast. I'm rather skeptical of that, but whatever. The rockets really weren't that hard to see if you just stared at your character's feet unblinkingly the whole time (the edge of the rocket target graphic on the ground was visible if you looked closely even if your character wasn't) until your eyes watered, glancing away occasionally to find a clear path through the mines. Annoying, but certainly doable. Now that rocket targets are accompanied by a massive red pillar of light, they're really hard to miss.

As for dealing with laser barrage, I read somewhere (probably either Maintankadin or Tankspot) that dropping to walk speed and strafing around him would let you avoid it without the risk of moving him. Having actually done it this way, I can say it works like a charm.

For a combo laser barrage and shock blast, it's a bit messier, but remember that shock blast only has a 15-yard range. You don't have to run halfway across the room to avoid it, and you can run in to meet the boss again (carefully). It actually hasn't been a problem for us in general. The tank accidentally getting laser barraged was a bigger issue for us than that until we were informed of the walking trick. I suppose that you could also stay in and burn shield wall plus an external cooldown, or just use guardian spirit if it's available.

There's a lot going on in phase 4, but remember that the only things that can really kill the tank are laser barrage, shock blast, and the rockets. Any decent boss mod will warn you of the first, and the latter two have really obvious graphics near the center of the screen. Seriously, I can't imagine how people could die to the rockets with their new graphic (yet some of ours still do, sigh).
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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby kywirelessguy » Fri May 29, 2009 6:27 am

Just wondering if it would be possible to bubble + taunt shock waves/plasma blast? I know its risky having the boss run off, but in 10's last night we just didn't have the cooldowns for me to tank him, we ended up using a DK tank with me tossing a couple holy lights and my hand of sac for plasma blasts.. I've bubble taunted grobbulus before, so I know its possible on bosses, but I also tried it on hodir once and it didn't work. So I don't know whether its possible or even worth the risk involved.
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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby Belloc » Fri May 29, 2009 9:43 am

kywirelessguy wrote:Just wondering if it would be possible to bubble + taunt shock waves/plasma blast? I know its risky having the boss run off, but in 10's last night we just didn't have the cooldowns for me to tank him, we ended up using a DK tank with me tossing a couple holy lights and my hand of sac for plasma blasts.. I've bubble taunted grobbulus before, so I know its possible on bosses, but I also tried it on hodir once and it didn't work. So I don't know whether its possible or even worth the risk involved.

I'm not sure if bubbling works with plasma blasts, but it shouldn't matter on 10 man. If everyone is spread out, napalm damage will be under control and both of your healers should be able to keep the tank up without cooldowns. I say both because I'm assuming 2 healers. If you're using 3 healers, I'll just bow out of the conversation right now.
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Re: Our incomplete Mimiron[10] strategy, open to suggestions

Postby kywirelessguy » Fri May 29, 2009 12:17 pm

We had 3 healers. One was assigned to napalm, I'm guessing he was helping heal me through plasma bursts though. I was sitting on about 38k hp (no warrior or lock). They'd heal me fine through plasma blast on occasion, but not consistently. Because of my lack of cooldowns I was saving shield wall for the 2nd plasma blast and using lay on hands for the 3rd. We never saw a 4th plasma blast.

Overall it was just easier with the DK, I'm just holy offspec and we were trying to do it with one tank instead of two. Though in hindsight its nice having 2 tanks for all the adds in p3 and having me available for hand of sacrifice and holy lights through the DK's plasma blasts. Probably would have helped to have a group with a little more synergy.
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