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[10/25]General Verax [ Second Impressions]

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[10/25]General Verax [ Second Impressions]

Postby Equitas » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:23 pm

Ill save myself some time here and just write what ive encountered today. The abilities of Verax are all very Clear if you read mmo champ.

1) Trash Packs:

Trash is tough, it also changed since last week when i was in 10 man PTR.
They removed the faceless patrols and put in two faceless ones which get enabled once you clear certain trash groups.

The Trash itself is quite big, its doable with 3 tanks though, the first trash pack is really annoying since you dont have alot of space and the aggro range of the second pack nearby seems to be big and triggered from weird events.

We found it most useful to have 2 mages perma sheeping the Frost mages, theres usually 2 of them, in the beginning those are the deadliest for the raid.

The Warrior tank gets the 2 Priest mobs and pulls them away, with one healer healing him and dispelling the fears, we made sure hes far away from the group.

The Druid MT took most melee mobs and i took care of Pyromancers and the Fire elementals which were perma banished.

Repeat 4 times and youre done.

The Faceless mobs were annoying but very easy doable, make sure you set a consecrate when the mob hits 77% hp and follow immediately with a holy wrath aoe once you see the void. Tank it kill it, dont get knockbacked into the other groups, stay near a wall, that includes everyone, hunters and warlocks need to take care of their pets here as these can get knock backed and wipe the raid.



2) General Verax.


We had a Feral druid tanking him, i was ret spec for the beginning, switched to prot later on.

Verax hits hard, rougly 22K hp on my gear per hit.
Melees need to know their interrupt rotations, make sure the flame cast is interupted or its a whipe.

Everyone needs to watch their debuff as mark of the faceless one heals him for alot and its extra dmg you should not be taking.

Healers need to rotate with dds on regging mana in the saronite gas patches.

The tank needs to be aware of where he kites him during surge of darkness, What i noticed is that in the 25 man version his run speed is only 80% in 10 man it was 50% during that cast, The tank needs to run away immediately once he sees the cast or verax will catch up and make quick work of him.

Other than that its a very simple fight, the add needs to be offtanked.

Our aggro is exceptional with 3.1, our druid died and i picked him up, our healers were stumbled as they though its a wipe, i held up 8 seconds without a heal with shieldwall on, Warriors and Paladins take a LOT less dmgo n this boss, avoidance is absolutely KING here ( gosh who thought id ever say that).

Nevertheless The problem is:

Paladins cant tank this, im not getting any mana on heals, divine plea is not working. Youre going to oom tank him very very soon about 30 seconds into tanking.

In his current state he is absolutely not tankable by a paladin from what ive experienced today.


Please care to share your experiences here aswell as your thoughts and concerns!


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Last edited by Equitas on Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:33 pm

You say you got no mana on heals, are you sure you still have SA on the PTR? His aura is supposed to leave SA partially effective. (This whole SA thing is going to make it hard to judge tanking capability on this fight, until the talent gets rolled out.)


They've added an ability that will affect ret slightly (though it's apparently there to stop healers speccing into Judgements of the Wise):
Corrupted Wisdom
Your insight into Judgements of the Wise is corrupted by General Vezax's Aura of Despair, hindering your ability to heal.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?spell=64646
Apparently a -75% healing debuff.
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Postby nicolax » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:51 am

yea, tanking on the PTR is really hard right now, spiritual attunement is NOT active at all, i'm oom all the time even with BoS and Divine Plea.

Also Divine Plea is maybe bugged, if you activate it, it refresh everytime you hit a mob, however you have to stick on that mob or your divine plea won't refresh anymore.
It didn't refresh when i taunted or hit another mob then went back on hitting my original target.
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Postby Serelynn » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:49 am

Make sure you report any of these suspected bugs - we certainly don't want them going live as it'd negate our usefulness as a tank. >.<

The boss sounds interesting - I'm sure all of my guild's healers will complain about mana regen being t urned off. Strangely though, I'm most pleased by the fact the trash requires some CC and isn't facerollable.
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Re: [10/25]General Verax [ Second Impressions]

Postby Flex » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:17 pm

Equitas wrote:Nevertheless The problem is:

Paladins cant tank this, im not getting any mana on heals, divine plea is not working. Youre going to oom tank him very very soon about 30 seconds into tanking.

In his current state he is absolutely not tankable by a paladin from what ive experienced today.


sounds like the buggy partially implemented SA changes are the cause not anything else.
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Postby Panzerdin » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:10 pm

Surely you can always move him into a Saronite patch, if it's that important that you get mana?
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Postby Equitas » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:04 am

Panzerdin wrote:Surely you can always move him into a Saronite patch, if it's that important that you get mana?


Why use a tank that needs to move into patches when you can use a tank that doesnt need to?

This is a warrior tank boss, undles they fix mana regen for palas, which is to much work.
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Postby MrDuck » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:51 am

After impact, leaves an energy field that lingers for 15 sec, increasing magical damage dealt by 50%, reducing healing done by 50%, and reducing mana costs by 30%.
How about this? I would guess SA will work on this boss once it's implemented as they plan it, that should be enough to keep it running somehow, and having this buff every now and then actually offers better threat potential for us than for warriors/druids (i guess it's helpful for DKs also, prolly making them best tanks for this fight?).
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Postby Senador » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:21 am

Surely you can always move him into a Saronite patch, if it's that important that you get mana?


Doesn't the Saronite patches drain health for the MP replenishment? Or did I read that completely wrong?

And, this is a legitimate question though, but having to drain your health, on an already hard hitting boss, that you have to be mobile on (Due to his kite portion) seems needless when any of the other tanks can simply handle the encounter without jumping through these hoops. There is "Can do it" and there is "Why would you bother, unless you had the encounter comfortably on farm (Similar to ROS, without using Spell Reflect in Phase 2)". Why would a guild subject themselves to this limitation, when any other tank can do it better, without limited resources, without having to drain their health, and without having to move the boss to specific locations simply to function?

Though this all might be issues related to the Spirtual Attunement change, but if so, why would they "Half" change it, and then throw those Paladins into tuning raid encounter testing when they can barely function? Surely you can't get any real test data when certain class/specs can not even function.
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Postby Kelaan » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:48 am

Being able to test with 3/4 tanks is better than zero testing until SA is fixed, I guess.

Definitely report problems if this is a "paladins are a far-inferior tank" issue, especially on 10-man: not all 10 man teams will have a non-paladin tank.
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Postby Panzerdin » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:14 am

Senador wrote:
Surely you can always move him into a Saronite patch, if it's that important that you get mana?


Doesn't the Saronite patches drain health for the MP replenishment? Or did I read that completely wrong?

And, this is a legitimate question though, but having to drain your health, on an already hard hitting boss, that you have to be mobile on (Due to his kite portion) seems needless when any of the other tanks can simply handle the encounter without jumping through these hoops. There is "Can do it" and there is "Why would you bother, unless you had the encounter comfortably on farm (Similar to ROS, without using Spell Reflect in Phase 2)". Why would a guild subject themselves to this limitation, when any other tank can do it better, without limited resources, without having to drain their health, and without having to move the boss to specific locations simply to function?

Though this all might be issues related to the Spirtual Attunement change, but if so, why would they "Half" change it, and then throw those Paladins into tuning raid encounter testing when they can barely function? Surely you can't get any real test data when certain class/specs can not even function.


I'd like to have Paladins as equal tanks, but failing that, being able to tank the thing is a concern.
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Postby Belloc » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:38 am

Senador wrote:
Surely you can always move him into a Saronite patch, if it's that important that you get mana?


Doesn't the Saronite patches drain health for the MP replenishment? Or did I read that completely wrong?

And, this is a legitimate question though, but having to drain your health, on an already hard hitting boss, that you have to be mobile on (Due to his kite portion) seems needless when any of the other tanks can simply handle the encounter without jumping through these hoops. There is "Can do it" and there is "Why would you bother, unless you had the encounter comfortably on farm (Similar to ROS, without using Spell Reflect in Phase 2)". Why would a guild subject themselves to this limitation, when any other tank can do it better, without limited resources, without having to drain their health, and without having to move the boss to specific locations simply to function?

Though this all might be issues related to the Spirtual Attunement change, but if so, why would they "Half" change it, and then throw those Paladins into tuning raid encounter testing when they can barely function? Surely you can't get any real test data when certain class/specs can not even function.

Ignoring the fact that the debuff will probably be fixed to allow for paladin tanks, the saronite pools don't appear to do much damage. You sit in the pool for a few ticks, take 5000-6000 damage, and you're full on mana. I don't think that amount of damage is going to get the tank killed.
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Postby PsiVen » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:42 pm

Even without SA, it'd really be quite easy for them to give him a melee ability that energizes the target. No debuffs or anything needed, if you have a mana pool and can survive him punching you in the face, you get some mana.

With SA working, 22k hits would energize 1/3 of your mana pool. We'd be just fine even if the aura cut SA in half.
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Postby Seloei » Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:17 am

You forgot one thing, the patch before they added aurayia / mimiron REMOVED spiritual attunement, not changed it. It used to be a baseline skill and they removed that without adding the talent, so while eu was testing it, paladins had no SA even on trash. It's back now as a talent choice.

The trash itself wasnt that bad, it was rough but with cc it was easy. ( 2 sheeps, repentance and banish -> walk in the park).
The boss however... if you don't have atleast 2 dedicated interupters ( melee preferably ) then this is not possible to do on 10 man, our interupt ( if retalented) is 20s for 3s window. SotR and AS dont interupt it, neither does arcane torrent.
Since we didn't have more than one melee to interupt the casts (him being the warrior tank) we couldn't get past 85% even with a "elaborate interupt rotation" so don't know how hard it was in the end. But one missed fire volley meant an instant wipe. He seemed to spam it all the time
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Re: [10/25]General Verax [ Second Impressions]

Postby Karnah » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:50 pm

Due to lack of SA our warrior tanked this. It gave me the opportunity to use Divine Sacrifice if nothing else! Seemed reasonable to do, although you do need 2 interrupts. I was doing it when i could, but 2 rogues would be perfect for the encounter.

He managed to one-shot both me and the warrior in one melee, while empowered with fire debuff on. :D

We did encounter a bug at one or two points where his empowerement did not slow him down.

For now i dont see reason to worry about our ability to tank this. The other specified spells on aura of despair all still provide more than enough mana to function. I dare say we will receive the same treatment.
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