When is enough HP enough?

[Akonda]

My question is exactly as the topic suggests.

Now that I have the trinket from H MgT, the 49 stam version of the JC spell dmg trinket, and have gained enough defense from BT upgrades that were unwanted by our tanks (I have to raid holy), I'm to an empass. I realize that if I spend 135 badges for 9 epic blues, I go up to about 17.8k HP (I haven't yet had a reason to spec prot so I can't accurately project my exact HP ATM).

Knowing I'm too undergeared to MT illidan (or at least thats what I am told), having been told I'm squishy, well....hell I've been told alot of things.

Granted I don't have the armor of a 5/5 t6 prot pally, I've been told I'm squishy in BT because I don't have enough dodge/parry. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the higher your avoidance, the less predictable you are to heal, therefore it would have a reverse affect? I'd much rather gear for more block value without compromising my high stamina, but I can't cut gems or anything to increase that.

Thoughts?

[Paine]

When your only focus is HP, you haven't read enough of the stickies under "Basic Training" tab.

Far as when enough HP is enough, I don't think any tankadin working on raid progression ever feel like they have enough HP.

[Akonda]

If you're referring to uncrushability and 490 defense, thank you captain obvious, but those requirements are met.

[Ryu]

You really don't need 17.8k hp unbuffed for BT. Anything above 16k unbuffed is fine.

[roosevelt]

Enough HP is enough when you're sacrificing other stats to the point that...

A.) Your mitigation/avoidance is so low that your healers can't maintain healing per second equal to your damage per second intake.

B.) Your healers can keep you up but run out of mana from using inefficient heals.

C.) Your threat is so low that you are threat capping your DPSers and run into enrage timers because of it OR dps is so slow your healers run OOM from prolonging the fight.

If your threat is fine and your healers aren't having a hard time keeping up then gearing for HP is a good idea to avoid the unexpected i.e. healer lag, a string of hits that all land, a crushing blow slipping by when you are recasting HS etc.

[Akonda]

I don't think B is an issue. A is a difference in opinion between myself and another holy pally that likes to also tank. I don't fully understand the benefit of it because of the unpredictable aspect of it.

With regard to my threat, for Illidan my threat is sub-par, but I think its due to inexperience. Alot is on my mind other than shear. Positioning on that fight is so involving that its very difficult for me to keep a consistent TPS rotation.

[Fridmarr]

A general rule of thumb is that once you have the health to eat 3 hits without heals and survive, you can start looking towards avoidance. Avoidance scales very well with the more you have, so with a combination of high health and avoidance, you are neither spikey nor squishy.

[Akonda]

I feel like I need more BV and armor. And I see it very difficult to maintain both with my current options for gear. I have tons of badges, and I was considering spending 135 badges to replace 9 12 stam gems with 15's. The only piece of armor that I wouldn't be substituting would be my Girdle of the Protector, because any week now Bloodboil will drop the tankadin belt and it will be M I N E.

However, an example of frustration is the 75 badge vs 100 badge legs. I'm sure a million people have asked which are better, and IMO the 75 badge ones are. But I'm getting to the point that 150 armor is making me re-consider my previous decision.

[Salamandra]

I can't think of any situation in which the solution would be more block value.

Unless you really need the block rating, which you certainly shouldn't, the 100 badge legs are better.

[Fridmarr]

I feel like I need more BV and armor. And I see it very difficult to maintain both with my current options for gear. I have tons of badges, and I was considering spending 135 badges to replace 9 12 stam gems with 15's. The only piece of armor that I wouldn't be substituting would be my Girdle of the Protector, because any week now Bloodboil will drop the tankadin belt and it will be M I N E.

However, an example of frustration is the 75 badge vs 100 badge legs. I'm sure a million people have asked which are better, and IMO the 75 badge ones are. But I'm getting to the point that 150 armor is making me re-consider my previous decision.

The 100 badge legs are better imo. Increasing your BV or armor is difficult. Armor at least has potions, enchants/armor kits, BV only has the meta gem. However, it's not at all uncommon to have a BV of only around 350 or so at the T6 level. Given the size of hits at the T6 level, armor really becomes a bit more effective than BV. Remember armor is a percentage decrease in damage, so it scales with the size of the hit. BV is a flat reduction, so it does not.

[inthedrops]

Akonda, you are one side of the extreme in the EH vs. Avoidance debates. Your thoughts aren't "wrong" per se. But I think you should consider how difficult it is becoming for you by trying to stick so hard to your gearing strategy. You'd think that alone is saying something. Wouldn't you?

Not trying to be an arse. I'm simply trying to point out that you're making it harder than it needs to be. Use what's available to you that makes you better and move along.

[Worldie]

You really don't need 17.8k hp unbuffed for BT. Anything above 16k unbuffed is fine.

That's fairly wrong, when i started tanking BT i didn't have even 15k, i was at 14300.

Illidan i progression tanked with 15kish HP unbuffed, altho i remind being somewhere between 3rd and 5th progression paladin tank on him, it was looong time ago.


Really, Badge gear is throwing some dust into your eyes people.

[Levantine]

I think it's amusing how the content gets nerfed and the 'minimum requirements' to get into the content for 'progression' have risen.

Not tankadin related, but Terrin, my Priest would have been MORE than geared to start Karazhan a year ago, but these days when I try to pug I get rejected for being 'undergeared' with 1300+heal, 250mp5 and 450 Spirit with just Kings and my own buffs.

[Seloei]

You have enough health when you can safely take a few hits and not die, other than that, avoidance is better. If you can then swap one of your health trinkets to an avoidance one. 55-60% is the number I've aimed for in pure avoidance when swaping in bt boss gear.

16k health, 55-60% avoidance and ~400-450 unbuffed SD is enough imho.

As holy, you lose out on 5+3.2% mitigation or 5+2.4% avoidance, so you don't have to respec to see where you really are

[Ryu]

You really don't need 17.8k hp unbuffed for BT. Anything above 16k unbuffed is fine.

That's fairly wrong, when i started tanking BT i didn't have even 15k, i was at 14300.

Illidan i progression tanked with 15kish HP unbuffed, altho i remind being somewhere between 3rd and 5th progression paladin tank on him, it was looong time ago.


Really, Badge gear is throwing some dust into your eyes people.

I come from the era where badge loot wasn't all that

16k is something that you'll get anyway with most of the t5 content gear, so yes, anything 16k+-ish is fine.