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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:15 pm
by Schadret
Thanks Kal!

Figured out the basics of simc and what to look for, looks like the best option is just using the heroic bracers of blind hatred, leaving the rest as is. That was both an increase in DPS and a lowering of TMI compared to every other combo I could think to run. Guess the 580's will have to get used in my offspec for now.

-Schad

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:33 am
by Fenrìr
So I was doing a Normal Garrosh yesterday with another ret and a prot paladin. The ret pointed out the prot was using a H Spark and the prot claimed it's the 2nd best for tankadins. I glanced at Treckie and he's using a HTF one so I went on a little math search but cannot find a single post about it anywhere.

Am I missing something here?

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:36 am
by Kal
I wouldn't say it's second best, but it is good. If he's having any problems, it's not due to the trinket. The haste gives more holy power, and the strength boosts Eternal Flame and Seal of Insight, so it's good for prot pally.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:17 am
by Thels
I often still use one in combination with Thok's. Only when I think either the extra stamina or the cooldown reduction is going to make a difference do I switch to the Vial.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:33 am
by Halide
Now that everything is on farm i'm looking to gear into dps, my main question regarding the dps bis would be is double amp trinket the way to go? I couldn't find one, so threw together my attempt at a bis list, but i'v really got no idea what i'm doing, so any corrections would be great, or a link to someone elses. The crit gems are becuase it took me over 50% haste, but i seem to recall amp counting twice in AMR or something, so that number could be wrong. Saving a AMR profile didn't seem to preserve what items were WF, so heres the simc export, is there another way i can easily link this?
Code: Select all
waist=poisonbinder_girth,id=105433,stats=3949armor_1827str_2981sta_1341hit_1082haste,gems=320crit_320crit_320crit,reforge=hit_crit
head=faceguard_of_winged_triumph,id=99370,stats=5617armor_2290str_3795sta_1567parry_1567haste,gems=capacitive_primal_160exp_160haste_270sta,reforge=parry_crit
legs=legplates_of_winged_triumph,id=99372,stats=6049armor_2370str_3795sta_1729crit_1400haste,gems=320crit_320crit_120str,enchant=285str_165crit,reforge=crit_hit
feet=wolfrider_spurs,id=105531,stats=4827armor_1907str_2981sta_1297crit_1260haste,gems=320crit_60crit,enchant=140mastery
chest=chestguard_of_winged_triumph,id=99368,stats=6913armor_2290str_3795sta_1162exp_1803mastery,gems=320haste_320haste_320haste,enchant=300sta,reforge=mastery_haste
shoulders=shoulderguards_of_winged_triumph,id=99364,stats=5185armor_1720str_2820sta_1192exp_1142mastery,gems=320haste_320haste,enchant=200str_100crit,reforge=mastery_haste
wrists=bubbleburst_bracers,id=105411,stats=3072armor_1490str_2236sta_1107hit_801haste,gems=320haste,enchant=500str,reforge=hit_crit
off_hand=bulwark_of_the_fallen_general,id=105556,stats=22519armor_1410str_2236sta_1002exp_856mastery,gems=320haste,enchant=170parry,reforge=mastery_haste
main_hand=siegecrafters_forge_hammer,id=105621,stats=1066str_1720sta_736haste_705mastery,gems=320haste,enchant=windsong,reforge=mastery_exp,weapon=mace_2.6speed_13192min_24500max
hands=handguards_of_winged_triumph,id=99369,stats=4321armor_1720str_2820sta_1365haste_856exp,gems=320haste_320haste_320haste,enchant=170haste,reforge=exp_crit
finger1=asgorathian_blood_seal,id=105620,stats=1410str_2236sta_978haste_930exp,gems=320haste,reforge=exp_crit
finger2=seal_of_the_forgotten_kings,id=105589,stats=1410str_2236sta_988crit_880haste,gems=320haste
back=gonglu_strength_of_xuen,id=102249,upgrade=2,gems=320haste,enchant=180crit,reforge=mastery_hit
trinket1=spark_of_zandalar,id=96770,upgrade=2
neck=malkoroks_tainted_dog_tags,id=105566,stats=1490str_2236sta_1052crit_896mastery,reforge=mastery_haste
trinket2=thoks_tail_tip,id=105609,upgrade=2


That was the highest dps profile i could get, but it is as a human so 1% exp. This is completely ignoring any survivability, just what gives the highest dps . I'm all over the place here, but basically asking if it's possible to do better, thanks in advance.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:09 am
by Thels
Have you tried to sim your character for DPS, then plug those values into AMR, find the BiS list, sim the BiS list for DPS, and plug those values into AMR again?

If so, what stat weights did you get?

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:11 am
by Halide
I'm not 100% on simcraft, I couldn't find a setting to get the scale factors for dps as prot, where are these located? I currently get this
Image
But this has given me another question, as i understand it the higher the negative number the more it reduces TMI? Why are mastery, dodge, parry and strength above haste? This is obviously a error, just curious what's causing it.(Simmed Halide, Arathor-EU against a T16H25 boss) My haste is only 46% odd, so it should still be valued higher until 50% right?

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:30 pm
by theckhd
You didn't scale over TMI, you scaled over Damage Taken Per Second (as it says in the graph title).

You can change what metric you're using to calculate scale factors on the options page. Change it from "dtps" to "tmi" for TMI stat weights, or to "dps" for DPS stat weights.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:54 am
by Thels
What Theck said. Also keep in mind that SimC calculates weights by increasing each stat by 1000 (except for Hit and Expertise, which are decreased by 1000). This means that once your haste rating exceeds 20250, the value for Haste will no longer be reported accurately. Though with 46%, you should still be a little below this value.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:16 am
by Halide
I have no idea how I missed the dps scale option, thanks for pointing that out.

The 4 piece is better than a full WF set for dps it appears (I changed the EF behaviour to cast as soon as you hit 3 stacks for maximum glyph of WoG uptime) or at least was with this gear set. The 4 set with EF'ing at 3 stacks had 732,980 dps, while a full WF set with default EF usage 730,224 dps, both had error margins ~ 160, 50k iterations, T16H10 boss. The gear sets are pictured below, the latter i used two crit gems to get the haste as close to 50% as possible, it gave a higher dps.
Image
Image

I'm fairly confident that all the none set pieces and thoks trinket are bis, but i can't figure out how to get a 2nd amp trinket to work correctly, i suspect the crit damage effect might take the none 4 set gear set slightly higher in dps, if the 2nd amp trinket even provides higher dps at all. Thanks for hand holding me through this :)

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:31 am
by Thels
You can of course sim with Skeers, and then sim again with, say, the trinket from Galakras. Hard to say which one is better.

If you want more DPS out of the non-set pieces, it might be worth it to respec to Sacred Shield, as it won't eat holy power.

You can also mess with your rotation, by pushing AS and T90 to the top of the list, and see if that's a gain for you.

Also, I just noticed that your 4set set actually has 5 set pieces equipped. You are likely better off with replacing one of the 4 locked tier pieces.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:45 am
by Halide
I may not have made it clear, this is as prot spec, with survivability not being a issue, isn't Galakras for ret only? The legs in my 4 set are actually the ret set legs, haste/crit, they're the best offset i could find while preserving the prot 4 set (Mastery is valued at 0 for dps). I spec EF because it's off the global and i'd be WoGing at 3 HP anyway, so may-as well get some survivability gain out of it.


I'm still trying to figure out the double amp thing, with a single amp trinket simcraft gives this
Dynamic Buffs
amplified
default_value:0.09
however forcing a 2nd trinket doesn't add a extra instance or increase the %, is there a way I can do this manually? Also, does anyone know if it's added or multiplied, if you have two amp trinkets? So 118% or 118.81%

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:02 pm
by Nightwulff
Took a break from tanking for a while as RL got in the way and old guild fell apart. Been running as dps most of this expansion till new guild asked me to tank again. Got to 90, started finding gear and now I think I am ready to start tanking 10-man SoO. But am I? Here is my armory page:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... f/advanced

Am I ready? If not, at what point am I considered ready? I am hoping for an answer that doesn't tell me I need an XXX ilevel. I am above a casual raider but not quite a hardcore raider. I know how to play prot pallies and used to main tank in old guilds.

I am trying to find out what is baseline stats other than ilevel to be considered geared enough to tank 10-man SoO.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:27 pm
by Taeron
Been stumbling on some heroic and even heroic warforged non-set pieces (helmet from Galakras,e.g.), but if I understand Theck's blog on 4-piece protection set bonus, it's stronger than normal > heroic/WF upgrades ...

I mean, it hurts looking at these heroic pieces in the inventory, but that 4 piece seems to make everything so smooth :)

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:44 pm
by econ21
Nightwulff wrote:Took a break from tanking for a while as RL got in the way and old guild fell apart. Been running as dps most of this expansion till new guild asked me to tank again. Got to 90, started finding gear and now I think I am ready to start tanking 10-man SoO. But am I?


I guess you dps'd on another character? Because for tankadins, the dps gear is better than the traditional tanking gear you are wearing with parry/dodge. Generally, set your loot preference to ret unless the boss drops a sword, shield or tanking trinket you want.

I would ditch the strength/haste proc trinket if you can. Random spurts of haste are not that great for us.

On your question, I can't tell you what gear you need objectively, but you have somewhat less gear than SoO was tuned for. The rule of thumb is the previous tier's ilevel (522) is what a raid was tuned for, at least the first few bosses. You are not so far off, so I think it's doable with a supportive guild. The first four bosses of SoO are pretty easy to tank, imo. They are probably more of a test for other roles. Doing the first wing a few times would probably do a lot for you in terms of loot.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:49 am
by Thels
Nightwulff: There are a few guaranteed upgrades that you can get your hands on without any luck involved:

http://wowhead.com/item=94265 - Haunted Steel Threads - Very nicely itemized 522 boots that most people wore for the entirety of T15, with only a drop from Ra-Den being a clear winner.

http://wowhead.com/item=98615 - Protector's Trillium Waistguard - Not very well itemized, but they're 553, which should be a clear upgrade over your 502 pants.

http://wowhead.com/item=103989 - Alacrity of Xuen or http://wowhead.com/item=103990 - Resolve of Niuzao can be bought on the Timeless Isle for 50k coins. Obviously better than your current trinket, though not too great of an upgrade, since they're still not very good for paladin tanks. You might also get some Burdens of Eternity while farming coins and use those to create 535 items.

Your item level is low. If your entire raid has your item level, you're better off gearing up through Flex first.

If the rest of the raid has a higher item level than you, they should be able to carry you through most of the instance, though Juggernaut will rely a lot on cooldowns (set up some external CDs there), and Garrosh will likely kill you. If the others are carrying you, I highly recommend gemming/enchanting more towards stamina. You currently don't have the health to survive 2 back to back hits from a lot of attacks, so getting more stamina would certainly help there. Yes, you will take more damage, but your healers will have to catch that up.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:53 am
by Thels
Halide wrote:I may not have made it clear, this is as prot spec, with survivability not being a issue, isn't Galakras for ret only? The legs in my 4 set are actually the ret set legs, haste/crit, they're the best offset i could find while preserving the prot 4 set (Mastery is valued at 0 for dps). I spec EF because it's off the global and i'd be WoGing at 3 HP anyway, so may-as well get some survivability gain out of it.


My bad. The other benefits from the trinket of course still apply, but they don't weight up.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:52 am
by Tweety
Lo all,

Not long come back from TBC raiding...
I've come back levelled up to 90 and decided to tank with my Pally..
Things going ok so far, just entered SoO Flex, and getting experience on Wings 1/2/3 (not tried 4 on flex yet)

I've seen a few posts above mentioning looting for DPS gear unless sword/shield/trinket...is this so through Flex raids or end content only?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/aggramar/Tweetster/simple My Char

I had http://www.wowhead.com/item=104765#dropped-by drop, should I replace it with my current chest?

Any tips on my current gear, and gear direction would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:19 am
by Thels
Advanced view shows more than simple view.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/aggramar/Tweetster/advanced

First, get rid of Glyph of Mass Exorcism in your protection spec, and replace it with something useful, such as Glyph of Hand of Protection or Glyph of Word of Glory.

The 4 piece for protection is really good, so keep that. Only replace them with higher ilvl tier pieces.

For the other gear, higher ilvl is usually better, regardless of the stats that are on it, though there are a few exceptions. Regardless, you are interested in secondary stats in the following order:

Hit rating, capped at 2550 (2210 for draenei).
Expertise rating, capped at 5100 (4760 for humans with swords or maces and dwarves with maces).
Haste rating, capped at 21250 (unlikely you will reach this value).
Mastery rating, capped at 25400 (quite impossible you will reach this value if you go for haste first).
Dodge rating and Parry rating (dodge has a higher diminishing return, but since all your strength gives parry already, dodge might be better).
Crit rating (not very useful for tanks at this time).

However, feel free to take a Dodge/Parry flex item over a Haste/Mastery lfr item, as more ilvl also means more stamina and armor. It's a little different for rings and amulets, since they don't provide any armory.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:11 pm
by Tweety
Awesome reply Thels, thanks a lot for the info

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:48 pm
by Rascaile
Hey there!
Used to be pretty active reader here when my paladin tank was my main, but not-so-much since I rerolled. I did read up that the 4-set is *ridiculously* good for both damage and survival for protection, so when comparing same-ilvl pieces I'd be pretty sure on taking the set pieces.

However, if you check out my armory you'll see my current situation. I have 2-set from shoulders and chest, then Heroic warforged hands, warforged legs and warforged head.

I recently acquired the normal tier leg token, and I'm assuming that if I got the normal head token (and thus 4-set) it will result in a big upgrade, despite the 2 WF->normal downgrades and not particularly amazing stats. Is this correct?

And if so, would it be an upgrade to replace the HC WF hands with tier hands if I got that token first? If so, only for the heroic token or even for the normal one?
Or is that all so much in the ballpark that it doesn't really matter?

Other than that, if you see anything out of the ordinary on my character page please point it out. I haven't run my character through askMrRobot but have switched around some gems (for example the 320exp in my ring instead of 160exp/160haste) to get better reforge results, but I'm not sure if it's optimal so any help is appreciated!

EDIT: oke so I did run it through askmrRobot quickly, I missed some obvious enchants (and bought a wrong leg armor, woops) which I'll fix soon. It's also telling me to forego any strength socket bonus on red sockets for pure haste. These I can all wrap my head around pretty easy and I'll change all that soon. However it is also telling me to go for 480 stamina JC-only gems. Is this correct?

After changing up a bit, the only differences with askMrRobot are these 2:
Using 2xJC-haste + 2x haste/stam gems instead of 2xJC-stam and 2xhaste gems (same socket boni).
I'm going for more dodge and less parry, because the macro I have from theck is telling me that's closer to my optimal ratio. (can trade 1.2k of dodge in favor of parry, other stats remain the same). This macro is still correct?
Code: Select all
/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Ideal pre-dr parry/dodge ratio: 3.597, yours is %.3f%%, if too high reforge more parry to dodge",(GetParryChance()-3.67)/(GetDodgeChance()-5.01)))


Thanks in advance
Cheers
Rascaile

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:47 am
by Thels
The 4 piece bonus is VERY good. You might consider taking HC Warforged pieces over LFR tier pieces, but 4 set at the normal quality beats all.

AskMrRobot is a tool, not a guide! It comes up with some numbers out of the box that aren't too far off track, but might not fit with your current gear, talents and playstyle. If you want accurate results from AMR, Sim your own character first!

Download from http://simulationcraft.org/
Extract and run.
Go to the import tab, copy your armory link in the URL at the bottom (you do NOT need to log in, so I recommend not to), and click Import at the bottom right.
Go to the options tab, and the globals subtab. Change the TMI Standard Boss to T16H25, the TMI Window to 6, and the TMI Actor-only to Enabled. You can change some other options here as well, such as iterations and threads.
Go to the scaling subtab and change Scale Over to TMI. Be sure to enable all weights that would have any impact.
Click Simulate at the bottom right, then go take a coffee break, as it may take a while.

Eventually, it'll complete, and give you proper weights that fit your character's gear and talents (though maybe not playstyle). Fill those weights into AMR, and then check and see what AMR advises.

If you want to be sure if an item is an upgrade over another item, go to AMR, change your gear and gems around, click SimC at the far right, and copy the entire block of text.
Go back to SimCraft, to the Simulate tab, and paste the text in either an existing or a new tab, then simulate again to compare your new TMI to the old one.

As for Jewelcrafting, it's in a crappy position right now. Secondary stat gems are so good in MoP, not because secondary stats are so amazing, but because you get twice the amount of stats. Jewelcrafting however only gives you once the amount of stats extra, so the jewelcrafting perk is bigger on primary stat gems than secondary stat gems. This forces jewelcrafters to use primary stat gems to get the maximum out of their profession, which makes them fall behind on other professions.

Dodge is usually better than parry for us, even though dodge is on a higher DR, because we get so much parry from strength. However, since both dodge and parry are poor stats for paladins, we usually don't care and reforge out of both of them. If both are present on a piece, reforge whatever there is more of, as it gives you more Haste.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:18 am
by Rascaile
Ok so will replace head with any token, hands if they're flex or better. (probably only running normal or heroic anyway on this character)

And I'm already pretty sceptical about askMrRobot - I'm not taking that one for granted! Although since the protection preset is made by Theck, I have more trust in it in this case than for many other classes/specs (priest presets were/are pretty horrible for example).
And yea, I know about that issue with the jc gems, it's quite silly :<
Changing the gems the way AskMrRobot tell me to compared to my current setup would make me lose 640 haste but gain 720 stamina. My amount of health seemed alright for now so i'll stick with the haste, maybe if I get some groups for further heroics I'll lean towards extra stamina, depending on how it goes.

Thanks for the quick runthrough on the tankadin setup for SimC. My simc has been gathering dust lately but I know how it works, the TMI seems interesting to play with so I'll do that and use the stat weights. Another tool that's been pretty useless for my priest :)

Lots of appreciation for the quick help man, I'll let you know if I have any more questions!

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:00 pm
by Fath
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/area-52/Joxxr/simple

Mr robot has me hemming like this but every pally i see has 320 haste gems everywhere .. is mr robot wrong ?

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:24 am
by Thels
Your link doesn't work. Also, /advanced is preferable over /simple.

Yellow and prismatic sockets are easy. 320 haste all the way.

If you are reforging pieces towards expertise that could be reforged towards haste instead, use haste/expertise gems in red sockets. So late in the expansion, that's not likely to happen. (The same could be said for blue sockets and hit, but that's even less likely.)

Other than that, it depends on the socket bonus. If the socket bonus is good, use Haste/Expertise in red sockets, and Haste/Stamina in blue sockets (or Haste/Hit in the unlikely case where you can reforge the hit away). If the socket bonus is not good, use 320 Haste.

Begs the question of course what qualifies as a good socket. If you need to use a Haste/Expertise gem to get a 60 Haste socket bonus, you'll likely end up reforging the 160 excess Expertise to Mastery somewhere, so you're effectively trading 100 Haste for 160 Mastery. Now if the socket bonus was 120 Haste, it would be a different story.

If you're a Jewelcrafter, using 2x 480 stamina could definitely be worth it, but try to find the two best socket bonuses that this will net you.