Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests Here)

Get help with your character's gear

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Sabindeus, Aergis, lythac, Digren, majiben

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:43 am

If you can pool holy power properly, then being slightly under the cap is fine. At that point, all you are doing is removing the last 1% parry chance for CS as J and AS cannot be parried.
Fetzie | Protection/Holy Paladin | EU-Kazzak
Former Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Image
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
User avatar
Fetzie
 
Posts: 2033
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:14 am

'mmkay. In short, we're gambling that that specific % won't come often enough to gimp us and buy some more haste in exchange. If you don't mind me pushing the thought - why is there a difference between the 15th percent and the 14th? And the 13th? And so forth? Why don't we gear Hit -> softcap Expertise -> Haste -> hardcap Expertise? I'm not trying to contradict, just deepening the understanding behind the choices.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:37 am

Expertise flat out beats haste for both DPS and Survivability!

If you have an open socket, and you could put an Expertise gem in there without going over the Expertise cap, that is flat out better than using a full Haste gem. However, if you only need like 20 more expertise rating, then you might start considering using 320 Haste, rather than 160Exp/160Haste, since it would count as a 20Exp/160Haste one, which I think is what Fetzie's getting at. However, considering reforging can usually get you just above the Expertise cap, that's not really an issue.

If you have issues getting to the 15%, take a couple more socket bonuses. For example, the boots have a decent stat (Mastery), so using Expertise/Haste gems there to get to the cap is certainly worth it, if you're struggling to get to the 15%. Perhaps in the shoulders as well, as it's 120 secondary stats for only a single hybrid gem.
ImageImage
User avatar
Thels
 
Posts: 1233
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 7:30 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:45 am

Break time! I've just got two completely opposed views on the same question. Having been working on my own Simcraft, I'd be of a mind of following Thel's advice (my original opinion), but I'd really want to hear more as to why "the last bit of expertise" is less important to Fetzie and others like him.

In short, I *know* I will be called out on hard capping expertise at the cost of haste, and I want to do a dry run of the conversation I'll have.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:14 am

In the end, a 100% is something you can rely on. If you pool 5 HoPo, then wait for a generator to come up, you can freely SotR, knowing that the generator will push you back up to 3 HoPo, allowing you to SotR or WoG when required.

If you're not capping hit and expertise, there's always the chance of the generator missing, and you being stuck with 2 HoPo for the next 3 GCDs.
ImageImage
User avatar
Thels
 
Posts: 1233
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 7:30 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:33 am

Sagara wrote:Break time! I've just got two completely opposed views on the same question. Having been working on my own Simcraft, I'd be of a mind of following Thel's advice (my original opinion), but I'd really want to hear more as to why "the last bit of expertise" is less important to Fetzie and others like him.

In short, I *know* I will be called out on hard capping expertise at the cost of haste, and I want to do a dry run of the conversation I'll have.


It depends on how big "the last bit of expertise" is. If it means you are between 14 an 15%, then you only have a 1 in 100 chance to have the CS parried. Judgement doesn't benefit from Expertise above 7.5% (I think it can be dodged, but not parried) and AS generates the holy power regardless of whether it hits or not. The longest you'll have to wait for a Holy Power is the cooldown of your Judgement, so if you are banking to 5 all the time, the likelihood of having a "dry spell" actually impact your survivability by a noticeable margin (ShoR not ready when you need it) diminishes towards zero.

Personally I wouldn't drop below 14% expertise. But that's just my gut feeling. I don't have any math to back it up. I wouldn't sweat over being between 14.5 and 15% because the chance to lose the holy power is so low, especially when you approach 15%. Unless I was doing challenge modes, that is, because the trash in those is way more dangerous than any raid boss.

I prefer to hard-cap expertise and hit, but I won't go out of my way to get the last 1-100 rating if it means losing out on a 320 haste gem, for example.
Fetzie | Protection/Holy Paladin | EU-Kazzak
Former Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Image
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
User avatar
Fetzie
 
Posts: 2033
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:44 am

Okay, so it's not so much a "exp is less important than haste", but more of a "don't waste itemization on overcapped expertise"

Like, if the choice is between 320 haste or 160 haste/40 exp (and 120 over cap), you'd say go for haste, but if it's between 320 haste and 160 haste and 120 exp (and 40 over cap), take haste/exp.

Am I getting your point right?
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:51 am

Pretty much. Although I'm also saying that it is totally fine to be between 14.5 and 15% if it means your reforging gives you significantly more haste (say you can reforge a "big" stat (like 1100 parry rating on a tier piece or so) to haste, and almost make up the difference by reforging a couple of avoidance, crit or mastery items to expertise while reforging the 1100 parry to expertise would over-cap you regardless of your other reforges).
Last edited by Fetzie on Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fetzie | Protection/Holy Paladin | EU-Kazzak
Former Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Image
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
User avatar
Fetzie
 
Posts: 2033
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:53 am

Great, I feel prety ready for that now.
BTW, any opinions on the neck/ring choices?
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:55 am

Sagara wrote:Great, I feel prety ready for that now.
BTW, any opinions on the neck/ring choices?

Using the TF twins necklace 2/2 upgraded because it allowed me to get more haste than I had with the 522 haste/mastery piece. Although I'm pretty sure it did that before I upgraded it too.
Fetzie | Protection/Holy Paladin | EU-Kazzak
Former Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Image
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
User avatar
Fetzie
 
Posts: 2033
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:21 am

Yeah, I had the intuition that as long as you don't have to reforge out of expertise for anything other than hit or haste, exp = haste = hit as far as gemming and reforging goes.

In fact, I'm probably even going to regem the neck into pure haste - 160 haste vs 90 stam and 300 mastery is not bad of a trade
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Promdates » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:01 am

http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=97 ... .0.0.145.2

This is comparing HTF items, although you could just look at the H versions. The chances of getting the trash drop be a HTF version (I have seen a heroic version, that was on I believe Treckie at the beginning of the tier) is very slim, so you should really compare the Tortos and Twins versions. Technically you could get more haste on the Tortos neck, the Twins one offers better overall stats.
User avatar
Promdates
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:10 pm

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:05 am

Well, i'm pretty certain I'll load the HC version of the Twin neck, but it's more of a "show my best foot forward" with what I already got, and defending my short-term choices (i.e. Y U NO take Valor neck?)
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:11 am

Sagara wrote:Well, i'm pretty certain I'll load the HC version of the Twin neck, but it's more of a "show my best foot forward" with what I already got, and defending my short-term choices (i.e. Y U NO take Valor neck?)


"Because, with the gear I currently own, the Twins necklace gives me more useful stats"
Fetzie | Protection/Holy Paladin | EU-Kazzak
Former Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Image
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
User avatar
Fetzie
 
Posts: 2033
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:16 am

Yeah, I'm just slightly nervous (see avatar) and am trying to double check my own conclusions.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:54 am

I feel like you're neglecting the usefulness of Expertise, Fetzie.

Say you go from 15% haste to 14% haste. You are 340 Expertise Rating below the cap. You manage to gain 340 Haste Rating from this, which gives you 0.8% additional haste. Let's say you had 40% haste, and now have 40.8% haste.

Over the course of a 9 minute fight, with 0% haste, you would press CS 120 times and J 80 times. Let's say you have an autoattack of 2.5 seconds, which means you would autoattack 216 times.

15% Exp/40% Haste:
You would press CS 168 times and J 112 times, for a total of 280 HoPo from CS/J. You would autoattack 302.4 times.

14% Exp/40.8% Haste:
You would press CS 168.96 times, 167.27 of them would hit. You would press J 112.64 times, for a total of 279.91 HoPo. You would autoattack 304.13 times, 301.09 of them would hit.

A 1 in 100 chance is not small. It's bound not to grant HoPo more than once during a single encounter. It's a loss in DPS and survivability, and might toss you off balance when you miss unexpectedly right when you needed that HoPo.

You do know the biggest reason tanks don't like Dodge and Parry? Because we can't rely on it! Why make your AM something you cannot rely on?

Play safe, play caps :)
ImageImage
User avatar
Thels
 
Posts: 1233
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 7:30 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby L'ombra » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:14 am

522 Doomed Crown of Lei Shen vs 535 Puncture Proof Greathelm? (assuming hit cap can be fixed)

I'm really clueless at how bad avoidance is.

Edit: For that matter I have 522 ret tier helm, too.
User avatar
L'ombra
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:38 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:35 pm

L'ombra wrote:522 Doomed Crown of Lei Shen vs 535 Puncture Proof Greathelm? (assuming hit cap can be fixed)

I'm really clueless at how bad avoidance is.

Edit: For that matter I have 522 ret tier helm, too.


With 13 ilvls, you can usually assume that the higher ilvl one is better. The Stamina and Armor that are on it are really useful.

Of course if it's a big difference, like several gemslots, then it might be worth to reconsider.



Sagara wrote:Yeah, I'm just slightly nervous (see avatar) and am trying to double check my own conclusions.


You were not alone. I had my first raid in a 25HC group (10/13) earlier tonight, and was pretty nervous myself. But it's still the same game, you still press the same buttons, and I didn't even find the bosses hitting that much harder. Your gear is a tiny bit better than mine, you should be fine.
ImageImage
User avatar
Thels
 
Posts: 1233
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 7:30 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Schroom » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:30 am

I'm sitting at 47.23% meleehaste atm. Especially with the new Tier coming up I'm asking myself how to best decide what items I should take to balance out haste to 50% and stacking another stat (stam/mastery or crit for DPS)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/z ... m/advanced

how do you folks intend on taking these decisions?
User avatar
Schroom
 
Posts: 670
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:03 pm
Location: Luxembourg

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:48 am

A lot of Haste comes from gemming. I don't think you can reach that 50% haste without gemming for it, so it won't be as much of an issue. If you happen to be over the Haste cap, just gem something else. :) This will also mean that all socket bonuses will become universally beneficial again.
ImageImage
User avatar
Thels
 
Posts: 1233
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 7:30 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:38 pm

Okay, i'm mostly still alive.

Now I've got another conundrum: either my 2 tier pieces (currently equipped) or HC Puncture-Proof Greathelm and Reconstructed Furious Shoulderplates... How in the FLYING FUCK did I drop those shoulders, I'll never know.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:58 pm

Holy shit, 0.13% drop chance. That's a tenth of the drop chance of Invincible or Onyxia's mount.
Fetzie | Protection/Holy Paladin | EU-Kazzak
Former Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Image
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
User avatar
Fetzie
 
Posts: 2033
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Hayt » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:16 am

Hayt wrote:Long time lurker and I find myself in need of a quick reality check (or a full fledged restructuring of perspective :/ ) because the haste/control build is sexy but also not in my comfort zone theory-wise.
I am MT for my guilds 2nd 10 man group and never do 25m content....mostly because we are an empty server and 2-night casual raiders.
My darling: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/b ... t/advanced


Hi Again everyone,

Thought I would crawl out from under my lurker rock and update on my gear status. After the helpful feedback I got earlier this year I took off the extra stamina and embraced full haste/control; and I have been loving it while having a quiet laugh anytime my healer feedback is "I barely have to heal you, the rest of the raid...not so much". Statistically false but still makes me smile. (also allows me to see reason in the up coming nerfs/changes)

As before I would appreciate any tips concerning mistakes in my kit; and also curious if the LFR haste belt from JR would be better than what I currently have?

I also have normal dark parasite legs but our 4p has carved out a niche in my heart and I just can't bring myself to drop 4p and re-adjust my stats to use them (though I could keep 4p by using the tanking chest instead of retri...). I haven't hit 50% yet; so maybe I am missing out...no idea.

I was also curious (maybe wrong section, I apologize) if vengeance "cheese" tactics were only for statistical glory or if it was an essential tactic on any boss?

Thanks again! /back under lurker rock
Hayt
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:36 am

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby kamidak » Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:58 pm

yo! plz someone tell me, with that gear i can tank ra-den without problem?!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/a ... o/advanced

and any tips for this? only with SotR on Fatal Strike i'll "heart attack"?
edit: for safe mode, keep holy avenger or i can try DP?
Last edited by kamidak on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
kamidak
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:34 pm

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:20 am

535 should be fine.

What might help is when the energy bar is filling up, to bank 5 HoPo and a HoPo generator, so you can quickly SotR, Generator, SotR to get a 6 second SotR. Makes it easier to catch the Fatal Strike with it, and will more likely cover the melee in front and the melee after as well.

Admittedly, I'm still stuck on Lei Shen, so I'm not speaking from experience.
ImageImage
User avatar
Thels
 
Posts: 1233
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 7:30 am
Location: The Netherlands

PreviousNext

Return to Gear Discussions and Advice

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest