Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests Here)

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Suikoden » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:38 pm

Hello all,

I recently picked up playing my prot paladin again and have been slowly getting used to everything once again.
For the most part i have it all down but i was curious as to when its time to start gemming pure haste gems and what haste thresh holds if any i should be aiming for?

Any advice would be much appreciated and my character link is below.
Cheers!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/o ... den/simple
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:00 am

You bought the wrong Shado-Pan Assault trinket. :(

You might want to look at the craftable items. There's a 522 helm and 522 boots that both have Haste/Mastery on them, and are excellent for both prot and ret. They might be expensive, though, and obviously quickly replaced when 5.4 is out.

As for when to switch from Stamina to Haste, that depends on the content you're running, but in your case, I'd stick to stamina a little longer. For LFR it really doesn't matter which of the two you're using, and if you can get into a ToT normal group, that Stamina is the most likely to keep you alive.

Then again, if you have no interest whatsoever in ToT normal for now, and only run LFR/5mans/T14, then you want to gem Haste instead of Stamina.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:19 am

I just switched from trying to keep a guild together/pugging, and doing mostly 10 man normal and perhaps a 10 HC here and there to a 25HC guild with 10/13. I have no personal feeling how hard the 25man bosses hit. I've managed to organize one 25man raid, and that was MSV with the 10man version on farm.

Considering I'm on the lower end of the gear spectrum for this guild, I'm considering switching back to Stamina gemming. Would people in 25HC guilds recommend as such, or rather to keep some haste in?

(To view my armory, click the banner under my post.)
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Paoanii » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:35 am

Thels wrote:I just switched from trying to keep a guild together/pugging, and doing mostly 10 man normal and perhaps a 10 HC here and there to a 25HC guild with 10/13. I have no personal feeling how hard the 25man bosses hit. I've managed to organize one 25man raid, and that was MSV with the 10man version on farm.

Considering I'm on the lower end of the gear spectrum for this guild, I'm considering switching back to Stamina gemming. Would people in 25HC guilds recommend as such, or rather to keep some haste in?

(To view my armory, click the banner under my post.)


Having tanked 7/13H this tier before switching to 10 man, I never saw a significant need for more stamina. The only notable exception to this is dark animus, but proper cooldown management and tank coordination (and leaving a small golem up to soak empowers) goes a lot further toward reducing tank deaths to Massives than does more stamina.

Edit: That's not to say Stamina gems may not be helpful, I more meant that situations in which more stamina would've saved me would also have been prevented by just all around better play. It's definitely worth considering stacking stamina, but even in the gear you're in, you're more than geared enough for almost all 25H bosses, so there isn't a huge pressing need to change.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Promdates » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:47 am

Thels wrote:25HC guild with 10/13. I have no personal feeling how hard the 25man bosses hit. I've managed to organize one 25man raid, and that was MSV with the 10man version on farm.


I'm 11/13, working on Lei Shen, and have yet to use stamina gems/trinkets since I was gearing up in normals at the beginning of the tier. The one thing I would recommend you pick up is the 4P bonus, as you can gain a significant amount of holy power from it over the course of a fight, other than that you're not behind gear wise... at least compared to where I sit (DAMN YOU RINGS!!)
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:03 am

Most of the people in my raid squad have gear in the 540s, so they're not relying on me to put out awesome DPS, which might make Stamina a more interesting choice. And yes, it's Dark Animus that's first on the list, if they don't manage to kill it this week while I'm still locked out to another guild.

I've got the chest and legs sitting in my bank, as the bonus felt too insignificant in 10 mans. Might dust them off, valor upgrade them, and squeeze them into my set. They're both 522, tho, compared to my 535 chest and 528 legs :/

Thanks for the advise. I'll probably get the gems cut and carry them around in my bags, just in case. Until then, I'll probably stick to the haste gems.

Though I might go ahead and switch meta-gems nonetheless.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Harb » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:02 pm

Hi guys,

Would you recommend i just gem the straight haste gems also tossing up between two set Lightning Emperor's Legguards and Lightning Emperor's Handguards or Vulcanodon Gauntlets and Bloodlord's Bloodsoaked Legplates (thunderforged)

Belt is saying Abandoned Zandalari Goreplate (thunderforged) over Reinforced Spiritplate Girdle

Advice would be welcome

Thanks,

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:11 am

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:18 am

Depending on how much Hit and Expertise you already have on gear, it's probably best to use Haste/Expertise, Haste/Hit and Haste/Stamina gems to meet Stamina/Hit/Expertise/Haste/Mastery socket bonuses. Hard to say without looking at your armory.

Those pants from Horridon are really juicy. I'd probably try to squeeze them into my gear somehow. The 2 set is not really worth it, if you have such awesome offspec pieces.

That said, the tier gloves might flat out beat the Oondasta gloves, if you can't burn the Hit. If you can burn the hit, it would be a tight match. I'd probably stick to the gloves in case you get a second tier piece down the road.

Crit ain't really useful, unless Berserk timers are a real issue to your guild. Since it's TF, the armor and stamina are slightly higher, but not noticeably so. I'd probably use the Rep girdle.

All in all, hard to tell without the bigger picture.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:10 am

If you want to get the 2piece and not the 4p T15 bonus, you should aim for Prot-tier helmet+shoulders, ret-tier chest, Primordius gloves and Durumu or horridon trousers (durumu's are preferable due to having expertise natively).
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:41 am

That really depends on how much expertise you already have. Especially with the VP trinket, you might have Expertise issues. The Horridon legs never dropped for me, and I'm using the Durumu ones, but I'd rather have the Horridon ones.

Also, while helm and shoulders would be the most optimized, that assumes you have all the pieces you want available to you. If this is the best you got for gloves right now, you're probably better off with say shoulders and gloves for tier, and the craftable ret helmet.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Harb » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:13 am

Thank you for the advice below is a link to my armoury:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/p ... u/advanced

I am hit(7.5%) and expertise(15%) capped. We are currently working on Megara in the group i am running with only in normals at present.

Thanks again
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:27 am

Ouch, that weapon!

If you're passing on Str socket bonuses, you should seriously pass on the Dodge socket bonus in your gloves and go 320 haste there.

You're already over hit cap and have to reforge away from it. That makes the Vulcanodon Gauntlets pretty weak. Stick with your Tier gloves for now.

For the other two, what's the issue? If you die often, then go for 2 tier and take the dodge belt. If mobs die too slow, then go for the haste pants and perhaps take the crit belt. Switch them out where needed, equipping the "survival" pieces on new bosses, and switching to the "DPS" pieces as your team is getting accustomed to the fight. :)

Also, once your guild starts gathering enough Spirits, try to nip a couple. There's few classes where the craftables are so amazing as for paladins.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:42 am

Especially the crafted boots upgraded 2/2 are on par with the Ra'den boots.
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bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:37 am

Ok, link is down here, I've re-done my gearing for an aggressive haste plan, while I'm applying for very (9+Hc) advanced guilds (both 10s and 25s)

I've been entering a debate on my rings and neck, where I currently have access to:
Neck: Necklace of the Terra-Cotta Vanquisher, Moonjade Necklace and Striker's Battletags
Ring: Jin'rokh's Soulcrystal, Band of the Shado-Pan Assault and Durumu's Severed Tentacle

Considering my rather low expertise, I'm thinking about sporting the Moonjade Necklace, Jin'rokh's and the Shado-pan rings. So the first question is what's your opinion on that choice.

The second question is I was told to swap over to Striker's Battletag and not bother to regem to cap expertise, because I'd be so close to cap anyway. I've got a hard time accepting the concept, and I wanted some opinions on that.

Thanks!
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:43 am

If you can pool holy power properly, then being slightly under the cap is fine. At that point, all you are doing is removing the last 1% parry chance for CS as J and AS cannot be parried.
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bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:14 am

'mmkay. In short, we're gambling that that specific % won't come often enough to gimp us and buy some more haste in exchange. If you don't mind me pushing the thought - why is there a difference between the 15th percent and the 14th? And the 13th? And so forth? Why don't we gear Hit -> softcap Expertise -> Haste -> hardcap Expertise? I'm not trying to contradict, just deepening the understanding behind the choices.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:37 am

Expertise flat out beats haste for both DPS and Survivability!

If you have an open socket, and you could put an Expertise gem in there without going over the Expertise cap, that is flat out better than using a full Haste gem. However, if you only need like 20 more expertise rating, then you might start considering using 320 Haste, rather than 160Exp/160Haste, since it would count as a 20Exp/160Haste one, which I think is what Fetzie's getting at. However, considering reforging can usually get you just above the Expertise cap, that's not really an issue.

If you have issues getting to the 15%, take a couple more socket bonuses. For example, the boots have a decent stat (Mastery), so using Expertise/Haste gems there to get to the cap is certainly worth it, if you're struggling to get to the 15%. Perhaps in the shoulders as well, as it's 120 secondary stats for only a single hybrid gem.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:45 am

Break time! I've just got two completely opposed views on the same question. Having been working on my own Simcraft, I'd be of a mind of following Thel's advice (my original opinion), but I'd really want to hear more as to why "the last bit of expertise" is less important to Fetzie and others like him.

In short, I *know* I will be called out on hard capping expertise at the cost of haste, and I want to do a dry run of the conversation I'll have.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:14 am

In the end, a 100% is something you can rely on. If you pool 5 HoPo, then wait for a generator to come up, you can freely SotR, knowing that the generator will push you back up to 3 HoPo, allowing you to SotR or WoG when required.

If you're not capping hit and expertise, there's always the chance of the generator missing, and you being stuck with 2 HoPo for the next 3 GCDs.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:33 am

Sagara wrote:Break time! I've just got two completely opposed views on the same question. Having been working on my own Simcraft, I'd be of a mind of following Thel's advice (my original opinion), but I'd really want to hear more as to why "the last bit of expertise" is less important to Fetzie and others like him.

In short, I *know* I will be called out on hard capping expertise at the cost of haste, and I want to do a dry run of the conversation I'll have.


It depends on how big "the last bit of expertise" is. If it means you are between 14 an 15%, then you only have a 1 in 100 chance to have the CS parried. Judgement doesn't benefit from Expertise above 7.5% (I think it can be dodged, but not parried) and AS generates the holy power regardless of whether it hits or not. The longest you'll have to wait for a Holy Power is the cooldown of your Judgement, so if you are banking to 5 all the time, the likelihood of having a "dry spell" actually impact your survivability by a noticeable margin (ShoR not ready when you need it) diminishes towards zero.

Personally I wouldn't drop below 14% expertise. But that's just my gut feeling. I don't have any math to back it up. I wouldn't sweat over being between 14.5 and 15% because the chance to lose the holy power is so low, especially when you approach 15%. Unless I was doing challenge modes, that is, because the trash in those is way more dangerous than any raid boss.

I prefer to hard-cap expertise and hit, but I won't go out of my way to get the last 1-100 rating if it means losing out on a 320 haste gem, for example.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:44 am

Okay, so it's not so much a "exp is less important than haste", but more of a "don't waste itemization on overcapped expertise"

Like, if the choice is between 320 haste or 160 haste/40 exp (and 120 over cap), you'd say go for haste, but if it's between 320 haste and 160 haste and 120 exp (and 40 over cap), take haste/exp.

Am I getting your point right?
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:51 am

Pretty much. Although I'm also saying that it is totally fine to be between 14.5 and 15% if it means your reforging gives you significantly more haste (say you can reforge a "big" stat (like 1100 parry rating on a tier piece or so) to haste, and almost make up the difference by reforging a couple of avoidance, crit or mastery items to expertise while reforging the 1100 parry to expertise would over-cap you regardless of your other reforges).
Last edited by Fetzie on Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:53 am

Great, I feel prety ready for that now.
BTW, any opinions on the neck/ring choices?
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:55 am

Sagara wrote:Great, I feel prety ready for that now.
BTW, any opinions on the neck/ring choices?

Using the TF twins necklace 2/2 upgraded because it allowed me to get more haste than I had with the 522 haste/mastery piece. Although I'm pretty sure it did that before I upgraded it too.
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