Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests Here)

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby theckhd » Tue May 28, 2013 4:52 pm

There are strength-reduced items, quite a few plate items with sockets do that. I've made similar plots for chests, for example, when confirming the ilvl formulas were still valid.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Baggy » Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:27 am

Hi people, would appreciate any advice to help me gear up to get back into raiding. I'm currently running lfr's and buying Valor pieces but I'm not sure if I've got my gems and reforge's nailed. I'm using the control/mastery build cos haste seems a million miles away with the gear I've been collecting. http://armorylite.com/eu/kazzak/baggysac/ Any pointers wud be very much appreciated, Thankyou.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Chmur » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:29 am

Hello fellow tankadins, I would like to ask for a gearcheck and advice. For years I've been playing my paladin as Ret/Holy or Holy/Ret, only the recent comeback to the game made me switch to Protection MS. I am playing for quite few weeks now as Prot and our guild entered TOT last week for the first time. I would consider my gear to be quite decent (given the timeframe and my LFR "luck") and I do not have issues with damage taken (at least our awesome healers do not complain). However, I am very frustrated about my dps and threat capabilities.

We have tanking team consisting of me (raidleader) and Monk. No matter what I do, our Monk just obliterates me on every damn pull, snap aoe on trash, you name it. I've read all the guides and I think I am actually doing my best following the best gearing patterns as well as rotation but I am completely at loss as to what is going wrong. Am I just that bad and should just step down and go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure 2? :/

My armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... r/advanced
Monk armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... n/advanced

My gear is still my old ret gear regemmed/enchanted/reforged to haste-control build (or so I think). Lately, I have been pondering whether I should try and go for mastery-control build to get better hang of the less-tight rotation haste-build provides, if only for the paladin practice? As well, any pointers as to how optimalize my current setup is more than welcome.

WoL: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7ehfumdeljdrj8c8/
Logs of yesterday's raid. I am fully aware of the fact that my HoPo management is dreadful and I have much to improve in the SS department (currently testing various WeakAura settings for SS indication). If either of you can look at the logs to see what might be wrong with me, I'd be grateful. Jinrokh - 2nd tank, Horridon - boss single tank, Council - OT swapping Frost King in pile'em&burn'em strat, Tortos - boss tank, Maegera - U-R-G-R-U-R-G order, Ji'Kun - 2nd tank. The reason I am going second is exactly because our Monk has extreme initial aggro where I struggle against our i530 kitty, so I understand later on Vengeance plays a role, but him snapping a pack of me in 1 second after I used 3gcds on them is just ridiculous :(

Thanks, Chmur
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:21 pm

Chmur: You use Stamina gems, but you do not use the Stamina enchant on gloves? That's just bad, as the stamina ratio on glove enchants is just way better than one. (It's even better on trinkets, but I guess it's likely you simply don't have a second Stamina trinket yet...)

Your feral kitty has some really nice ranking on WoL, so it's understandable that he puts out some TPS. Still, on single target, that shouldn't be a problem. (When there's other stuff going around, that might be a different case.)

I would actually advise against gemming out of haste to learn the haste rotation, as your fingers get used to the slower speed. It's better to just go full on haste, and whack against the training dummy for an hour or so, just to get the rotation into your fingers. Perhaps have an addon like CLCRet installed at the start to show you which buttons to press. You can always take it off halfway, and then continue to do so by yourself. Since you're doing 10 man normal, you don't really need the stamina gems yet, so try to regem some back to haste. Also, try to get every single socket bonus (even crit) if you gem that way, since you can just use Haste/Expertise for red gems (and regem some Expertise back to Haste if you get too much expertise), and Haste/Hit or Haste/Stamina for blue gems.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Gruck » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:36 am

@Baggy: I'd still recommend Control/Haste, even if you are missing some haste in the beginning. Like Thels wrote in his last post for Chmur, it's essential to get used to it. Furthermore, for LFR and getting back into raiding, it's not that bad if you're messing it up a couple of times.
Having a look at your gear in genreal, I'd say:
- enchant your bracers
- change the enchant on your shield to parry
- try to get 2 new trinkets. The 522 one for valor is nice and a couple of others with haste from throne (e.g. horridon's spark of zandalar)
- get Blacksmithing up to get the two extra sockets
- gem/reforge for control/haste (don't always try to get the socket bonus. first consider if it's worth using hybrid gems. If not, go straight haste)
- weapon enchant to dancing steel

@Chmur: Basically Thels already said everything. Just one thing regarding the aggro of your fellow monk tank: On AoE situations, that absolutely normal. Monk aggro is current very strong and with rushing jade wind, you can compete. For single target fights, keep in mind that a monk tank is stacking crit these days, and if he's lucky and not stopping his rotation for a sec after tank switch, he might easly pully aggro before you really started pushing your buttons. If this is regularey the case, try to stacks 5 HP in advance before taunting to get things going.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:17 am

Gruck wrote:- gem/reforge for control/haste (don't always try to get the socket bonus. first consider if it's worth using hybrid gems. If not, go straight haste)


That only applies if you're over Hit and Expertise cap, and unable to reforge it away.

As long as you can gem a little hit or expertise, and have no problems reforging yourself to just above the caps, ALL socket bonuses are worthwhile, including Crit.

Free stats are free stats. :)
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Tbickle » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:30 am

Hello

I'm a new Protection Paladin (this is my first character, actually). I'm running LFR and recently changed to control/haste (was control/mastery) using 2 stam trinkets.
Should I use a haste trinket (LFR spark of zandalar) instead?
The VP DPS Chest from Shado-Pan Assault will be good for me or should I spend my VP with something else (gloves maybe)?
Any other advice?
Here's my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/n ... n/advanced

Thank you! :D
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Gruck » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Thels wrote:
Gruck wrote:- gem/reforge for control/haste (don't always try to get the socket bonus. first consider if it's worth using hybrid gems. If not, go straight haste)


That only applies if you're over Hit and Expertise cap, and unable to reforge it away.

As long as you can gem a little hit or expertise, and have no problems reforging yourself to just above the caps, ALL socket bonuses are worthwhile, including Crit.

Free stats are free stats. :)

True. Of course, for control/haste build, if there is an exp. or hit bonus, go get it. I was referring to things like parry or avoidance, which is not worth getting.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby econ21 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:24 am

Tbickle wrote:... using 2 stam trinkets.
Should I use a haste trinket (LFR spark of zandalar) instead?


You are using the same trinkets as me. I like the cushion provided by stamina, even in LFR (can't rely on those healers sometimes), and trinkets are the most efficient place to get it.

The VP DPS Chest from Shado-Pan Assault will be good for me or should I spend my VP with something else (gloves maybe)?


I never saw it as a dps chest. It's expertise/hit, right? We need those stats. It's a great chest; I'm wearing it. I would not prioritise the gloves - you may get lucky on Nalak.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Tbickle » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:47 pm

Yeah, the expertise/hit one. I think if I change my chest for this one I will lose almost 1% haste.
I see people saying we should prioritize stamina on 25m and try to balance it with secondary stat on 10m, that applies to LFR too?

Thank you :D
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby econ21 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:22 pm

Tbickle wrote:Yeah, the expertise/hit one. I think if I change my chest for this one I will lose almost 1% haste.
I see people saying we should prioritize stamina on 25m and try to balance it with secondary stat on 10m, that applies to LFR too?


Ah, ok, did not notice it was the ret LFR chest. Stuff in LFR generally hits less hard than in 10m, so I guess it's a lower priority there than even 10m. However, how much health you need is also a function of how good your healers are and by the nature of LFR, I think that's rather unreliable. Also, a big plus for haste is more dps, but I am not sure how important that is for a tank in LFR. My priority there is more to endure through Durumu and Lei Shen, rather than provide extra dps. A tank death can wipe a try but I doubt a shortage of a few k dps would make a difference.

If you are comfortable with your survivability in LFR, then it's fine to stay with the Ret LFR chest for more dps. But typically I would take a 522 piece over a 502 one and the vp chest seems the best failsafe one whereas the hands you'd probably switch for the tier ones from Nalak given a chance.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Tbickle » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:04 pm

I'm fine with my survivability actually... I'll upgrade some items first and buy the chest later.

Thank you very much
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Gab » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:45 am

Gruck wrote:True. Of course, for control/haste build, if there is an exp. or hit bonus, go get it. I was referring to things like parry or avoidance, which is not worth getting.


Even dodge/parry/mastery/stam (and crit on belt) bonuses are worth picking up with a haste/hit or haste/exp gem in almost all cases. It's still "free" stats as long as you are able to reforge down to hit/exp caps.

The only exceptions would be if you are at a point where you are over hit/exp caps and unable to reforge enough of it away or where you have sub optimal reforges such as having to reforge smaller amounts of hit/exp instead of larger amounts of dodge/parry to get down closer to the caps. I'm at 535 and still not at either of those points but YMMV depending on what you're wearing.

Edit Quick re-gem/re-forge Full haste vs current set up of hitting bonuses:

Full haste:
+620 haste

-120 crit
-120 dodge
-300 parry
-360 strength
-780 mastery

Wanted to double check after making that statement. Guess I was mistaken... Although still a worthwhile trade off imo considering I'm already at a 1 second GCD raid buffed. At lower gear levels it's probably an even bigger benefit considering the initial difficulty in reaching both hit and especially exp cap. Really hinges on current gear though, should be a case by case basis.

Armory link for reference, although I did the regemming/reforging on AMR with Ji-Kun's Rising Wind (522) instead of Dark Mist Vortex and 530 tier shoulders instead of 543 tier shoulders.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bleeding-hollow/Gabbed/advanced
Last edited by Gab on Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:09 pm

Gruck wrote:
Thels wrote:
Gruck wrote:- gem/reforge for control/haste (don't always try to get the socket bonus. first consider if it's worth using hybrid gems. If not, go straight haste)


That only applies if you're over Hit and Expertise cap, and unable to reforge it away.

As long as you can gem a little hit or expertise, and have no problems reforging yourself to just above the caps, ALL socket bonuses are worthwhile, including Crit.

Free stats are free stats. :)

True. Of course, for control/haste build, if there is an exp. or hit bonus, go get it. I was referring to things like parry or avoidance, which is not worth getting.


You're missing my point. I wasn't talking about getting a Hit or Expertise bonus. I was talking about an avoidance or crit bonus.

If you normally gem full Haste for gems, those are likely still worth getting, as you can swap your full Haste gem for a Haste/Hit or Haste/Expertise gem, and reforge some Hit or Expertise on your gear to Haste.

Even if you normally gem full Stamina after Hit/Expertise cap, you still likely want to get them, as the Stamina/Hit (Even though both Stamina and Hit are blue stats, Stamina/Hit is green) and Stamina/Expertise gems allow you to fill out all the socket bonuses as well.

The only exceptions are when you have so much Hit or Expertise on gear/gems, that you can't reforge the excess Hit or Expertise away.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:15 pm

Gab wrote:
Gruck wrote:Wanted to double check after making that statement. Guess I was mistaken... Although still a worthwhile trade off imo considering I'm already at a 1 second GCD raid buffed. At lower gear levels it's probably an even bigger benefit considering the initial difficulty in reaching both hit and especially exp cap. Really hinges on current gear though, should be a case by case basis.

Armory link for reference, although I did the regemming/reforging on AMR with Ji-Kun's Rising Wind (522) instead of Dark Mist Vortex and 530 tier shoulders instead of 543 tier shoulders.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bleeding-hollow/Gabbed/advanced


There are two reasons why it doesn't work completely:

1) You already have haste on a lot of pieces. You can't reforge stats to haste, but you can reforge stats to hit/expertise on those slots. If you need less hit/expertise from reforges, then it means it'll reforge those stats towards Mastery, rather than Haste.

2) AskMrRobot often plainly just calculates wrong.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Gab » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:33 am

Thels wrote:There are two reasons why it doesn't work completely:

1) You already have haste on a lot of pieces. You can't reforge stats to haste, but you can reforge stats to hit/expertise on those slots. If you need less hit/expertise from reforges, then it means it'll reforge those stats towards Mastery, rather than Haste.

2) AskMrRobot often plainly just calculates wrong.


1) Right, that's what I was getting at, just wasn't aware that I was at the point where I was getting some sub optimal reforges (sub optimal is probably a bad term... I'm just not getting as much haste and getting more avoidance but at these haste/gear levels that's not really "sub optimal"). Ignorance is bliss, although like I said I still think it's a worthwhile trade considering the benefit of haste after reaching GCD haste cap is marginaly worse than prior to reaching 1 second GCDs.

2) Sure it does, but I did it all manually. I should have added that those are approximate values since I had to fiddle with some hit and expertise and didn't wind up at the exact same values with both gemming strats. It was more or less just a quick check for reference.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:38 am

Gab wrote:Ignorance is bliss, although like I said I still think it's a worthwhile trade considering the benefit of haste after reaching GCD haste cap is marginaly worse than prior to reaching 1 second GCDs.


Actually, aren't you quite a bit away from 1 second GCDs? You armory shows you at 30.12% Melee Haste, and while I'm guessing you recently got new shoulders who still need gemming, and might have a second Haste trinket, I doubt that'll tilt you all the way to 50% Melee Haste...
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Gab » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:54 am

1.3*1.05*1.1 = 1.5015

Raid buffed with spell haste and SoI spell haste

I think I'm calculating correctly?

Edit: Yeah you're correct. SoB reduces GCD with melee haste, not spell haste... oops.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:32 am

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:10 am

Ji'Kuns is best used as the disenchanted Sha Crystal and haunting spirit to enchant your weapon with Dancing Steel and build some almost BiS boots.

The proc is so shite, you are basically using a trinket slot for 1200 expertise. You're better off sticking a Ghost Iron Dragonling in the slot (it gives you 1800 stat points instead of 1200)
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:14 am

So i am better off using the one with the str proc?
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:24 am

I don't consider the trinket as bad as Fetzie does it. Given, it's not a huge heal, but it can be just that tidbid neccesary.

However, I normally run the Strength trinket (from Valor points), and keep Rising Wind in my back. If I suddenly need to switch to maximum survivability, I equip Rising Wind (together with the Stamina trinket from Lei Shen). The reason is not because Rising Wind is the (second)best, but because it also provides expertise, so I can swap the valor trinket in for Rising Wind and still be Expertise capped.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:32 am

Wish i could get the leishen trinket, he hates me.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Thels » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:44 am

Wish I could get the Horridon trinket...
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Promdates » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:50 am

Klaudandus wrote:So i am better off using the one with the str proc?


If you're looking to get the most dps out of your trinkets, then you're going to want Spark of Zandalari and Fabled Feathers of Ji'Kun. Which FFoJK has a lot of hit, it provides a lot of dps. The only other trinket I would consider for dps would be the 522 valor expertise one. As of now, I haven't found a need for anything other than dps trinkets while doing 25H fights.

Be warned though, the LFR versions of them have very mediocre proc rates.
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