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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:51 am
by Enliightened
Thanks for the awesome response, this is the exact reason I came here and not somewhere else. Everyone here is always very helpful! I really appreciate that. Mining/JC are gonna be my profs. Trying to convince my wife to mine for me while I am at work/school lol.

I am in a GREAT guild, and I am gonna start running heroics with them so I can start getting better gear. I do okay in normals, which I am doing simply for JP, so I can get my hands on some better pieces. The crafted pvp was better than what I had, that's why I went with those. They actually helped tremendously and made it easier on me. The random dungeon groups I have been getting into lately have been tremendous. Most of the dungeons are a breeze because the dps is usually through the roof.

As for going ret my gear for that is downright terrible havent upgraded since lvl 82 lol. I think my guild is more than willing to help me with getting better gear while tanking the dungeons. Luckily we have crazy dps and amazing heals.

Thanks again for the well-thought-out response.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:27 am
by Bakey
A trinket question for you guys. I managed to pick up Indomitable Pride out of LFR last night, and I'm not sure what trinkets to use now. Armory link:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/w ... n/advanced

We're clearing 10N DS now, and I've got the 2 trinkets shown, the normal Resolve of Undying, and now the LFR Indomitable Pride. Should I drop Fire of the Deep and regem for the lost mastery to run primarily Pride and Veil? I'd been swapping Veil out for Resolve during the Blackthorn fight, should I keep doing that?

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:28 am
by Gab
I can't look at your link atm so I can't say for sure, but until I get a chance here are some thoughts.

Resolve is pretty bad... Of the four I would go with IP and FotD for all of the fights in DS normal.

FotD over VoL for two reasons. The higher itemization from FotD could net you more stam because you will be able to convert gems to pure stam gems and the on use dodge is much better than the random proc dodge on VoL.

On Blackharon specifically I still don't like Resolve over FotD and IP. The IP shield proc tends to be quite good on Blackhorn because his melee and all of his abilities hit fairly hard and FotD on use is good for slowing/stopping the debuff stacking and reducing DTPS while your OT's stacks drop. Since you wont be tanking the entirety of P2 in most circumstances the dodge from resolve loses some value when compared to the on demand dodge from FotD and the shield proc from IP.

Edit: Just checked your link and imported your toon into Chardev.org real quick, everything looks good for the most part. Just thought I would mention that with kings, horn and dodge food you are 103.16 CTC. If you're using mastery food and elixirs than you are even further over the cap. You can start converting dodge and parry into expertise/hit with reforging or you can start swapping out green and purple gems for pure stam gems or a mix of both. It depends on what you feel would benefit you and your group more.

Theck has compiled some information found in the link below that will help you efficiently prioritize which socket bonuses should be skipped if you decide to go that route.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32711

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 3:39 am
by Thegreatiam
http://armorylite.com/us/blackrock/overkilladin/

Just curious here, as I'm currently 103.16% CTC without buffs, what you guys would recommend for reforging/gems/etc. I'm working on trying to get this all figured out in between workdays, but I'm not having a lot of luck.

What does dodge food + full raid buffs get me towards CTC? Should I consider mastery food instead?

Any other advice for me?

As always guys, thanks for whatever input you have time to give :) Time for sleep...

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:44 am
by theckhd
The amount of CTC gained through buffs and food will vary based on diminishing returns. But it's generally a little over 1%; 1.15% in your specific setup.

Ask Mr. Robot is actually a pretty good resource in your case, because you can use the default settings. Just bringing up your character, it immediately tells me that you're at 104.3% with raid buffs, so you can shed some mastery for more stamina.

There are two noticeable gear upgrades you can pick up from valor: Forgesmelter Waistplate and Fire of the Deep. Neither of these are ilvl upgrades, but they're both better itemized than what you're wearing. The belt will net you a socket and let you trade a bunch of hit for more mastery (and subsequently more stamina from gemming). The trinket replaces the extremely poor Resolve of the Undying, again giving you much more CTC and letting you shift mastery gems to stamina. I'd also recommend using Indomitable Pride instead of Soulshifter Vortex, if you can get your hands on it, since Soulshifter's proc is useless.

Making those two gear upgrades and letting Mr. Robot optimize your enchants/gems/reforges, you gain 1577 stamina, or a little over 22k health.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:16 am
by Thegreatiam
I have FotD, but I've been led to believe that once I've reached CTC, I should be trying to maximize my pure avoidance stats and ideally losing it.

I'll pick up the belt next time I get a chance, and utilize Mr. Robot sometime after work. I did notice just now that expertise has been weighted very low, is it not recommended to soft cap expertise to eliminate boss parry anymore? How severely will that affect my damage/threat output?

Should I be trying to convince my guild to go back and do H-FL for that trinket?

Last but not least, SBV meta > Armor meta, is that right?

Thanks, Theck! Too bad you're on Alliance and I can't bug you in-game ;-)

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:47 am
by theckhd
Thegreatiam wrote:I have FotD, but I've been led to believe that once I've reached CTC, I should be trying to maximize my pure avoidance stats and ideally losing it.

Some people advocate that route. I personally don't, because it doesn't suit the content and because I think the fundamental premise behind stacking avoidance is flat-out wrong. Dragon Soul throws a lot of un-blockable, un-avoidable damage at you, which makes both mastery and avoidance weaker. More to the point, the basic idea behind stacking avoidance is that a tank that takes 1-2% less damage is magically better somehow. That's the part I think is wrong - taking less damage is good, of course, but it's not as good as the alternative, which is giving your healers more breathing room with extra stamina. With the amount of overheal and near-limitless mana regen that we see in T13 content, taking 1-2% less damage just turns into noise fluctuations.

Thegreatiam wrote:I'll pick up the belt next time I get a chance, and utilize Mr. Robot sometime after work. I did notice just now that expertise has been weighted very low, is it not recommended to soft cap expertise to eliminate boss parry anymore? How severely will that affect my damage/threat output?

Most tanks aren't focusing on hit/exp at all, and haven't all expansion. Bosses don't get parry-haste anymore, so parry-gibs aren't a concern. All hit/exp does for you right now is increase DPS and give you more reliable Holy Power generation. Those aren't negligible benefits, but in terms of raw survivability they're not that compelling. Threat is a non-issue since the threat modifier buff - after the first 30 seconds, you can basically auto-attack and Vengeance will hold aggro for you (note that I'm not recommending this, mind you).

I'll note that there are exceptions here. Many of us built a high-DPS set for Ultraxion because he didn't tax tanks very much, but had a tight enrage timer. In addition, hit/exp-stacking is more common and more beneficial in 10-man raids, where the tank's DPS is a more significant portion of raid DPS. In 25-mans though, it's rarely considered important.

Thegreatiam wrote:Should I be trying to convince my guild to go back and do H-FL for that trinket?

If you're talking about Indomitable Pride, it's a Dragon Soul drop. But it's one of the shared loot drops, so it can be fairly rare.

Thegreatiam wrote:Last but not least, SBV meta > Armor meta, is that right?

In general, yes, but note that the same rationale for stam-stacking instead of dodge/parry-stacking applies here too. Most of the dangerous damage in Dragon Soul isn't blockable, which would tend to favor the armor meta (example: Impale). However, a lot of it is also magical, which negates either bonus. In my opinion, pick whichever one is best for the fight you're currently progressing on. I'd use SBV for Morchok, Ultrax, Blackhorn, and Spine. I'd use armor for Hagara and Madness (Impale). Also consider there's a spell damage reduction meta, which might be the best choice for Zon'ozz, Yor'sahj, and Madness (Tetanus).

Thegreatiam wrote:Thanks, Theck! Too bad you're on Alliance and I can't bug you in-game ;-)

You could just visit Stormwind and mime your questions. There's nobody left on Alliance to try to kill you anyway! :P

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 6:18 pm
by Thegreatiam
Sorry for the terrible transition, but I was referring to the trinket that I see you wearing on the armory from hc beth :)

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:16 pm
by Bakey
Gab wrote:Edit: Just checked your link and imported your toon into Chardev.org real quick, everything looks good for the most part. Just thought I would mention that with kings, horn and dodge food you are 103.16 CTC. If you're using mastery food and elixirs than you are even further over the cap. You can start converting dodge and parry into expertise/hit with reforging or you can start swapping out green and purple gems for pure stam gems or a mix of both. It depends on what you feel would benefit you and your group more.

Theck has compiled some information found in the link below that will help you efficiently prioritize which socket bonuses should be skipped if you decide to go that route.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32711


Thanks for the heads up and the link. I know I'm a bit over CTC right now, and I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to swap out to all epic gems for a few more K health. We're farming 10N now (when we can get people to show) so I'm not really hurting for more stam. Also, I'm using dodge food and cauldron flask, so not wasting a ton of mastery there.

At any rate, I'm going to try IP and FotD as my 2 trinkets for a while and see how it goes.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:11 pm
by theckhd
Thegreatiam wrote:Sorry for the terrible transition, but I was referring to the trinket that I see you wearing on the armory from hc beth :)

Oh, that one? I don't think it's worth going back to farm it if you don't have it. I use it because I can't easily shed more mastery, so the extra mastery on Fire of the Deep doesn't do me any good, and I prefer the absorb effect to the on-click avoidance cooldown (mostly because again, avoidance doesn't help me in the two situations I care about: Impale and Tetanus).

In your situation, I'd probably stick with the Fire, since you can use that extra mastery to gem more stamina.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 11:42 pm
by Schroom
Most of the dangerous damage in Dragon Soul isn't blockable, which would tend to favor the armor meta (example: Impale)




euhm sorry but, as far as I know Impale ignores armor....

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:24 am
by theckhd
Schroom wrote:
Most of the dangerous damage in Dragon Soul isn't blockable, which would tend to favor the armor meta (example: Impale)

euhm sorry but, as far as I know Impale ignores armor....


Looks like you're correct. The base damage is only 1.2M on heroic. For some reason I was under the impression that it did, and that the base damage was ~2.5M.

So Impale doesn't favor any meta in particular, I guess.

What to do after being CTC capped

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:44 pm
by trebla57
I tried posting earliar but I guess I did it in the wrong place and it was taken down. So here I am...

Anyway, I have a CTC capped pally tank and was wondering if I am doing the right thing by taking out my former Mastery/Stamina gems and replacing them with all pure stam gems. Those slots where all blue and I decided before CTC cap that putting in Mastery/Stamina gems was the way to go, but once I started getting gear to get me CTC capped I had to loose some mastery. I figured taking those green gems out and replacing them with full Stamina gems was the best solution at the time. Generally I don't gem for dodge, neither do I take dodge trinkets, because of diminishing returns. I feel that taking extra dodge where you could have got something else like stam or mastery is just worth more point for point because of diminishing returns on dodge and parry.

Also, I just got a new piece, the 397 glove tier piece for a pally tank. My last pair of gloves had a blue socket so I just put a 101 stamina gem in that socket but now the slot is yellow, put a blue gem in there anyway and was wondering what you guys thought about that. Here is my character:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... e/advanced

Another reason why I decided to take stam over dodge or parry for that matter is because dodge and parry don't help to mitigate magic damage, but stam does help, a small amount at least.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:59 pm
by Baneslayer
Hmm so tier 13 shoulders (lvl 397) versus heroic Brackenshell Shoulderplates (lvl 410) for stacking stamina for heroics?

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:07 am
by Shoju
Baneslayer wrote:Hmm so tier 13 shoulders (lvl 397) versus heroic Brackenshell Shoulderplates (lvl 410) for stacking stamina for heroics?


If you can stay block capped, and maintain your 4pc while wearing Brackenshell the higher ilvl piece will *almost* always win out.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:10 am
by RockyBalboa
Hey guys, Im just coming back from taking a break after wrath. Built up a decent entry level set.

What would your next VP piece be in my position. Just starting DS N and trying to catch up on old raids. Thanks.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/p ... boa/simple

I actually have Gavel of Peroth' arn as of writing this.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:30 pm
by Worldie
It's all similar level of upgrades, but consider that the neck is BiS (there's no neck at all in DS), and cloak is almost-BiS (the cloak from Ryolith hc is still a very valid top alternative), while you can grab 2 rings in the LFR / DS normal.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:52 pm
by RockyBalboa
Thats great advice. Thanks very much. I can almost buy both, but not quite. Ill start with the neck.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:49 am
by Antaka
Hello, i been away from game for some time and i wonder how should i start rebuilding my char for DS hc. my guild is killing 5 hc per week so we need to try for more :)

http://armorylite.com/eu/neptulon/antaka

i have in bags,

Resolve of undying (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=77201
Souldrinker (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=77193
iceward cloak (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=72854
mirror of broken images http://www.wowhead.com/item=68713
spidersilk spindle http://www.wowhead.com/item=68981
soulshifter vortex http://www.wowhead.com/item=77206
veil of lies http://www.wowhead.com/item=72900

suggestions are welcome. thanks.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:15 am
by benebarba
Antaka wrote:Hello, i been away from game for some time and i wonder how should i start rebuilding my char for DS hc. my guild is killing 5 hc per week so we need to try for more :)

http://armorylite.com/eu/neptulon/antaka

i have in bags,

Resolve of undying (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=77201
Souldrinker (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=77193
iceward cloak (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=72854
mirror of broken images http://www.wowhead.com/item=68713
spidersilk spindle http://www.wowhead.com/item=68981
soulshifter vortex http://www.wowhead.com/item=77206
veil of lies http://www.wowhead.com/item=72900

suggestions are welcome. thanks.


I chucked your character into Mr. Robot and think it did pretty well (your base gear is better than my own, but I have had to go through a similar process): http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/neptulon/antaka

There's a few places where you'll actually want to reforge the defensive stats to mastery instead of the hit/exp, and reforge the largest of parry/dodge to mastery even if you may lose a bit of parry/dodge to diminishing returns as a result. That way you gain CTC from gear and can start gemming more stam. The gloves and cloak, for example. You'll also want to upgrade some of your gems if you can afford it - moving to the epic green mastery/stam gems in a few slots can allow you to stack stam elsewhere. Also, the wrath +40 stam bracer enchant is a nice one to get once you can get it without dropping below CTC.

do you use a feast of do you eat mastery food? I use the +90 mastery food (lavascale minestrone) even though it means I need to provide my own just because it is much better for CTC.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:32 am
by Antaka
benebarba wrote:
Antaka wrote:Hello, i been away from game for some time and i wonder how should i start rebuilding my char for DS hc. my guild is killing 5 hc per week so we need to try for more :)

http://armorylite.com/eu/neptulon/antaka

i have in bags,

Resolve of undying (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=77201
Souldrinker (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=77193
iceward cloak (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=72854
mirror of broken images http://www.wowhead.com/item=68713
spidersilk spindle http://www.wowhead.com/item=68981
soulshifter vortex http://www.wowhead.com/item=77206
veil of lies http://www.wowhead.com/item=72900

suggestions are welcome. thanks.


I chucked your character into Mr. Robot and think it did pretty well (your base gear is better than my own, but I have had to go through a similar process): http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/neptulon/antaka

There's a few places where you'll actually want to reforge the defensive stats to mastery instead of the hit/exp, and reforge the largest of parry/dodge to mastery even if you may lose a bit of parry/dodge to diminishing returns as a result. That way you gain CTC from gear and can start gemming more stam. The gloves and cloak, for example. You'll also want to upgrade some of your gems if you can afford it - moving to the epic green mastery/stam gems in a few slots can allow you to stack stam elsewhere. Also, the wrath +40 stam bracer enchant is a nice one to get once you can get it without dropping below CTC.

do you use a feast of do you eat mastery food? I use the +90 mastery food (lavascale minestrone) even though it means I need to provide my own just because it is much better for CTC.


hello, thanks for your help first of all.
and yeah i can afford epic gems, but whichone you suggest to change and change in to what?
i use feast or dodge food but i can fish for mastery if its needed

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:02 pm
by benebarba
Antaka wrote:hello, thanks for your help first of all.
and yeah i can afford epic gems, but whichone you suggest to change and change in to what?
i use feast or dodge food but i can fish for mastery if its needed


looks like you already optimized a bit since I last checked :D

I'd definitely go for the lavascale minestrone (+90 mastery and stam) food (you can set this in the options in ask mr. robot), since that means that you can dedicate more itemization to stamina. If you do that, then with the gear you had on in your armory when I checked a few minutes ago, you can put another solid ocean sapphire into your boots (or if you want drop 2 epic solid deepholm iolites in there). Either way, check to make sure that with the buffs you expect to have that you'll still be at or above 102.4% CTC (I have a little macro that I use to check this whenever I move stuff around).

I think the combo of indom pride and fire of the deep is a good one (I'll do it once I get indom pride), though you may find spidersilk spindle and the mirror of broken images good for certain fights. Soulshifter vortex I wouldn't bother with since the proc is actually useless for us since we want to be at 102.4% CTC at all times while buffed (except certain fights were it may be ok to drop below that, like ultraxion, but other trinkets will be more useful for those special cases).

Then comes the question of weapon. You have the heroic hand of morchok which is the winner between it and the normal souldrinker when it comes to combat table coverage (since souldrinker doesn't have secondary stats). But souldrinker provides some nice damage boosts and a healing proc - but as a result you'll have to modify your gemming strategy. I am not sure right off hand which is actually better for overall survivability... IIRC, it depends on what your healers have trouble with.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:28 pm
by Antaka
benebarba wrote:
Antaka wrote:hello, thanks for your help first of all.
and yeah i can afford epic gems, but whichone you suggest to change and change in to what?
i use feast or dodge food but i can fish for mastery if its needed


looks like you already optimized a bit since I last checked :D

I'd definitely go for the lavascale minestrone (+90 mastery and stam) food (you can set this in the options in ask mr. robot), since that means that you can dedicate more itemization to stamina. If you do that, then with the gear you had on in your armory when I checked a few minutes ago, you can put another solid ocean sapphire into your boots (or if you want drop 2 epic solid deepholm iolites in there). Either way, check to make sure that with the buffs you expect to have that you'll still be at or above 102.4% CTC (I have a little macro that I use to check this whenever I move stuff around).

I think the combo of indom pride and fire of the deep is a good one (I'll do it once I get indom pride), though you may find spidersilk spindle and the mirror of broken images good for certain fights. Soulshifter vortex I wouldn't bother with since the proc is actually useless for us since we want to be at 102.4% CTC at all times while buffed (except certain fights were it may be ok to drop below that, like ultraxion, but other trinkets will be more useful for those special cases).

Then comes the question of weapon. You have the heroic hand of morchok which is the winner between it and the normal souldrinker when it comes to combat table coverage (since souldrinker doesn't have secondary stats). But souldrinker provides some nice damage boosts and a healing proc - but as a result you'll have to modify your gemming strategy. I am not sure right off hand which is actually better for overall survivability... IIRC, it depends on what your healers have trouble with.


hello, yeah i have checked the mrrobot and modified most of my gems in to stamina and change some reforges. i will have test chance the new changes soon :)
im just didnt touch the boots because i will change them soon also 1 more question how trustful is that mrrobot site for the suggestion about reforging and gemming?

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:04 pm
by benebarba
for me, mr. Robot did pretty well, IMO (I tend to also check it myself based on stuff in the theorycrafting forum and got help from folks here too). But for some specs/classes it doesn't work as well and there is always some room for variation on certain things (like I use landslide instead of windwalk on my weapon - but I just like hitting things hard every now and again)

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:39 pm
by minifreak88
Alright, I hope no one laughs. I was derping on askmrrobot and this is what it told me to do. I think it's pretty cool and i'm still at avoidance cap without buffs (I'm just nit picky like that >.< i know i should probably reforge to some hit or something) but I still feel like i'm taking a lot of damage. is it just because of my health being so high or what? should i go back to some hybrid gems?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... e/advanced