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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:47 pm
by Flex
Stacking more dodge and parry wont help you with Yor'shaj or Hagara as it wont help with magic or the unavoidable/non-blockable focused assault. So it is GM+officers not knowing the fights and how they work.

What was the other tank?

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:33 am
by Era
Like flex said, no point in stacking more dodge/parry on those three fights. I've been running with fairly low parry/dodge through all the DS Heroics, only fight I felt I needed some more was when the fifty million bloods on Spine HC were pummeling me.

For Zon'ozz and Yor'sahj, use a resistance elixir and the Tol Barad resistance trinket if you have it, plus the glyphed version of Divine Protection. Use the spell right before Zon'ozz uses his laser beam (can't remember what it's called right off the bat, think it's Psychic Drain?) - and on Yor'sahj use it when your stacks of the debuff gets high.

For Hagara I found it helpful to go with stamina trinkets and stamina flask, unglyphed Div. Protection, and then if you run out of cooldowns and your healers are too lazy to use their own cooldowns on you, have a DPS run away and taunt the boss right when she casts Furious Assault - and then you taunt her back before she hits the other player. Communication is key here.

Good luck!

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:31 pm
by indirect
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/a ... ect/simple

Resolve of Undying or Veil of Lies?
I'm OT.
I don't feel like I have any HP issues on Spine or Madness, and it feels like Veil never procs...

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:03 am
by Schroom
After the raid the GM + officers wanted to talk to me and said that they thought I was stacking too much mastery and needed way more dodge + parry


Did you ask them why? I mean, did you die on the normal hits of the boss? in that case your healer fell asleep or something, well except maybe for zonozz as he hits pretty hard with melee attacks in the end when he got a couple of stacks, just keep your holyshield ready for that and maybe a trinket with some dodge on use, or ask for an external cooldown like painsup if it is too much, or simply do one less pong. meanwhile with the nerf, we do 5-5-5-5 which works pretty well to escape the enrage timer.

Or did you die from the special abilities? well then dodge and parry are useless for those. As someone said, the laser beam from zonozz is magical, this can't be dodged, you have to use a cooldown for this.

yorshaj I still run with the -2% magical damage meta gem, the cloak and head enchant from WoTLK with shadow resistance, with a mastery and resistance elixier, mirror of broken images and glyphed DP. Also I use Seal of insight for this one, glyphed and also WoG glyphed, as none of those produce stacks and may help your healers. Also a paladin healer is pretty amazing for this fight. As he puts flame on me and fully heals the hunter or Warlock pet the entire time. And then WoG or LoH on me.

for Hagara the mean ability is called focused assault. This is physical, but like impale from madness, can't be dodged or parried. I go for full stamina here. I ignore CTC and have 263k+ HP. The first focused assault can be almost completely avoid by pulling the boss on max-range an then running to the far edge of the platform, and tanking him there. (also if done cleverly now the raid is in perfect position for the ice/lighting phase).

For the other focused assaults do a nice cooldown rotation, I also keep my HoPo for this and if available I use my wings for that WoG to get an extra selfheal boost. We never had someone to taunt off here or anything, allthough on the first kill a f***** healing potion (!!!) saved my life and gave our healer that split second to get out that heal.
We killed Hagara like 3 times now and our Deathknight tank hasn't even touched the boss yet, allthough I think it's time for her (yes it's a she) to try it out next week.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:05 am
by theckhd
Tank4life wrote:What do you think people? Do you think this change will be to the better or worse? And what would you do?

I think your GM/officers don't know shit about tanking, and are giving you terrible advice.

Dodge/parry won't help you survive the dangerous bits on Hagara/Yor'sahj, and mastery/CTC is still preferable on Zon'ozz. If you're taking excessive amounts of damage on any of those fights, you need to make sure you're using cooldowns logically. Prismatic elixir is also helpful for Yor, as another poster mentioned.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:17 am
by Wonton
So... Souldrinker Y/N? I'm at the point where I can equip it and still hit the CTC cap, but doing so over my Gavel of Peroth'arn would require me to re-gem a lot of Stam gems to Mastery, therefore actually losing a few thousand health. Is the ~6000 heal actually worth it?

Edit: Did the math on chardev, and I'd be losing about 3200 max health with the re-gemming I'd have to do by equipping souldrinker. I'm pretty sure that's not worth it, but I'd still like confirmation on here.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:39 am
by Darklya
Morning All,

Ok i've come to these boards for advise, you guys always seem friendly and helpful unlike a lot of other Forums. I've geared through raid finder, but will be tanking with my guild this weekend (work has messed up my other weeks of raiding)

My problem is that i've recently managed to get to the Block cap numbers. But Since then i've managed to pick up a couple of options for Trinkets. I would also like a little help with my gemming, since i've almost always played dps or healer the gemming has always been easy. But with a tank i've just gone and tried to match all socket bonus for as much mitigation as possible.

This is how i'm geared at the moment

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... lya/simple

Ok Trinket question 1st

ok i know Fire of the Deep is a good trinket and that's a keeper, my question is what should i use for my 2nd trinket.
I have 3 options
SoulShifter Vortex (raid Finder) http://www.wowhead.com/item=77970
Spidersilk Spindle (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=68981
Veil of Lies http://www.wowhead.com/item=72900

My 1st thought looking at them was that Soulshifter Vortex was the best, but since i've reached Block capped i'm not to sure. As what does all the extra Mastery from proc help with ? So i wasn't sure if this just ends up as a Stam trinket or if the proc on mastery is still useful or if it's just good for certain fights.

Then I thought I could equip Spidersilk Spindle, And change some of my Gemming/Reforging about. As equipping this puts me to about 108.74%

3 I thought that Veil of lies could be useful do to the proc being Dodge so it means that more pure mitigation over blocked blows. And it's only 34 Stam less than the Soulshifter.

Any advise would be great. Thanks in Advance
Darklya

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:57 am
by Wonton
Mastery beyond the block cap on a Paladin is completely wasted, so Soulshifter Vortex is pretty much only a Druid/Warrior/DK tanking trinket. I'd probably go with the Veil of Lies in your case, since you clearly don't need the mastery from the 2nd one.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:28 am
by Rhiannon
Wonton wrote:So... Souldrinker Y/N? I'm at the point where I can equip it and still hit the CTC cap, but doing so over my Gavel of Peroth'arn would require me to re-gem a lot of Stam gems to Mastery, therefore actually losing a few thousand health. Is the ~6000 heal actually worth it?

Edit: Did the math on chardev, and I'd be losing about 3200 max health with the re-gemming I'd have to do by equipping souldrinker. I'm pretty sure that's not worth it, but I'd still like confirmation on here.


You can read the discussion between Pyrea, Hespherus and Theck in the successes thread from here onwards for some recent relevant discussion on the subject, but the tl;dr is that it's fairly rare to have a death occur in dragon soul where the extra hp will impact your survival more than the chance of the heal. Go with souldrinker, it does tons more dps and will contribute to preventing your death more than Gavel in most situations.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:51 am
by benebarba
Rhiannon wrote:
Wonton wrote:So... Souldrinker Y/N? I'm at the point where I can equip it and still hit the CTC cap, but doing so over my Gavel of Peroth'arn would require me to re-gem a lot of Stam gems to Mastery, therefore actually losing a few thousand health. Is the ~6000 heal actually worth it?

Edit: Did the math on chardev, and I'd be losing about 3200 max health with the re-gemming I'd have to do by equipping souldrinker. I'm pretty sure that's not worth it, but I'd still like confirmation on here.


You can read the discussion between Pyrea, Hespherus and Theck in the successes thread from here onwards for some recent relevant discussion on the subject, but the tl;dr is that it's fairly rare to have a death occur in dragon soul where the extra hp will impact your survival more than the chance of the heal. Go with souldrinker, it does tons more dps and will contribute to preventing your death more than Gavel in most situations.


Just to provide a bit more on that (I had wondered about it): it's the fact that at our health pools and the resulting damage the heal from SD is actually worthwhile, compared to say the heal received from the mending enchant whose heal probably won't prevent your death because it is several times (IIRC) smaller and the enchant does nothing to your damage to help with encounter shortening.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:20 am
by Wonton
Hm. Well, they are obviously talking about the Heroic version, what with the "10k heal" business. The Raid Finder version only has 2.6% health drain, and my health pool is smaller too of course. I've always been a stalwart believer in guaranteed numbers over random procs, so I'm still not convinced that "5200 sometimes" is better than "3200 always".

P.S. Does anyone know if the additional swings from Reckoning can also proc it? Because that would significantly increase the proc rate in a real fight, I'd think.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:54 am
by Rhiannon
They're talking about normal souldrinker vs heroic morchok, but yes he has heroic gear so his hp is higher. Yes Reckoning can proc it. Look at how you're dying - if it's due to burst damage from full hp in a 2-3 second window then sure, more hp is better. If when you die the last time you were topped off is many seconds prior then the extra hps is generally more helpful. If tank death isn't an issue then go with the higher dps option.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:56 am
by Worldie
Remember that (despite anyone can say) your job is also dealing damage. The more dps you perform, the more slack you can carry from the dps.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:20 am
by Wonton
I'll give it a try, I guess. Just a little sad to have to re-gem so many things.

Something else that I've never realized before trying some things out on chardev - a Battle Shout or Horn of Winter buff actually gives me about 0.64% parry from the increased Strength. I've always taken Kings/MotW into account when calculating for that 102.4 number, but I've never thought of those particular buffs. I wonder what the uptime on them is - is it too risky to assume they'll always be up so that I can trade off a little mastery into stam when gemming?

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:30 am
by Rhiannon
You ought to be able to assume 100% uptime on that buff as long as there's a remotely competent dk in the raid. As long as there's a priest in the raid for the hp bull a warrior should be keeping it up 100% as well. Shamans should be keeping it up close to 100% as long as armor buff's being covered by a paladin, hunters can keep it up by using cats if needed.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:52 am
by benebarba
Worldie wrote:Remember that (despite anyone can say) your job is also dealing damage. The more dps you perform, the more slack you can carry from the dps.


And if none are slacking then you are also helping end the fight faster. SD lets you get 2 birds with one stone, to some extent.

as for the buffs... depends on the raid. In LFR or PUG'ed raids, I'd assume you have MOW/kings and any food/flask you use. I wouldn't bank on having folks maintaining buffs properly... though that's a subjective call.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:25 pm
by Wonton
Alright, gemmed and enchanted everything, and this item set works. I went for the unbuffed CTC of 101.19%, with the assumption that a Battle Shout, Kings, and the Parry food (which was surprisingly cheap at 30g a stack) will put me at 102.41%. Equipped item level is now 382, feels good. I might even start looking for some DS 10 next week. :D

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:30 am
by Nooska
Wonton wrote:Alright, gemmed and enchanted everything, and this item set works. I went for the unbuffed CTC of 101.19%, with the assumption that a Battle Shout, Kings, and the Parry food (which was surprisingly cheap at 30g a stack) will put me at 102.41%. Equipped item level is now 382, feels good. I might even start looking for some DS 10 next week. :D


I would assume you get better CTC coverage from using the dodge food / feast - I have a hard time imagining that you have more dodge rating than parry rating (due to STR-> Parry) - even though at least I'm within 200 rating of eachother in my set for elixir usage.
(sadly mastery food is out for me due to having to donate fish for the fish feast and the lavascale catfish are hard enough to catch as is (even though I do my fishing on the AH)

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:45 am
by Fenrìr
One thing you may do as well, is use the Mastery/stam food. While mastery beyond the cap is wasted, it can allow a gem or two to swap to a stam one or even a mastery/stam in a yellow/blue socket.

Netting you a little more health.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:41 am
by benebarba
Darklya wrote:Morning All,

Ok i've come to these boards for advise, you guys always seem friendly and helpful unlike a lot of other Forums. I've geared through raid finder, but will be tanking with my guild this weekend (work has messed up my other weeks of raiding)

My problem is that i've recently managed to get to the Block cap numbers. But Since then i've managed to pick up a couple of options for Trinkets. I would also like a little help with my gemming, since i've almost always played dps or healer the gemming has always been easy. But with a tank i've just gone and tried to match all socket bonus for as much mitigation as possible.

This is how i'm geared at the moment

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... lya/simple

Ok Trinket question 1st

ok i know Fire of the Deep is a good trinket and that's a keeper, my question is what should i use for my 2nd trinket.
I have 3 options
SoulShifter Vortex (raid Finder) http://www.wowhead.com/item=77970
Spidersilk Spindle (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=68981
Veil of Lies http://www.wowhead.com/item=72900

My 1st thought looking at them was that Soulshifter Vortex was the best, but since i've reached Block capped i'm not to sure. As what does all the extra Mastery from proc help with ? So i wasn't sure if this just ends up as a Stam trinket or if the proc on mastery is still useful or if it's just good for certain fights.

Then I thought I could equip Spidersilk Spindle, And change some of my Gemming/Reforging about. As equipping this puts me to about 108.74%

3 I thought that Veil of lies could be useful do to the proc being Dodge so it means that more pure mitigation over blocked blows. And it's only 34 Stam less than the Soulshifter.

Any advise would be great. Thanks in Advance
Darklya


I missed this earlier - but I still recommend folks go get the Mirror of Broken Images from Tol Barad. Depending on where you are in rep, it may not be that big a grind and will net you a really handy magic resistance trinket with mastery on it (IIRC, with resistance aura and kings/MOW up, the on-use takes you up to something crazy like 50-60% damage reduction from magic for its duration). I've found it useful, and nothing is stopping you from swapping out for fights where you want one of the others instead.

As Wonton mentioned, soulshifter vortex you'd only be wearing for the stamina if you want to stay CTC-capped with 100% uptime- it's a pretty poor trinket for prot pallies at the moment. So I too would probably go with veil of lies out of your list.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:48 am
by benebarba
Fenrìr wrote:One thing you may do as well, is use the Mastery/stam food. While mastery beyond the cap is wasted, it can allow a gem or two to swap to a stam one or even a mastery/stam in a yellow/blue socket.

Netting you a little more health.


I do this, letting me move a couple gems around since I can always go catch or buy lavascale catfish. It's also why I pretty much never eat from the feasts dropped in raids, unless I'm dpsing, since it'll likely give you dodge (maybe parry, I know I've never gotten mastery. presumably it isn't a possibility).

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:18 am
by Gab
It's dodge 100% of the time from the fish feast.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:26 am
by benebarba
I figured it was something like that, but wasn't 100% sure.

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:01 pm
by Enliightened
Hello all!

I have been a reader on here for a while, but I recently got my pally to 85 and I am kinda stuck and dont know where to go from here...Also this was a boosted character from rez scroll so I havent done any profs yet either.

I am just wondering where would be a good place to start on getting geared and gems/enchants. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Here is my armory link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/v ... d/advanced

Thanks
Enliight

Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:43 am
by econ21
Enliightened wrote:I am just wondering where would be a good place to start on getting geared and gems/enchants.


It sticks in my throat to say this (as I love tanking and dislike dpsing), but at this stage of the expansion, I would recommend that you play as retribution for a bit while you accumulate tank gear. With your crafted PvP gear, I think you have the ilevel to do the three Hour of Twilight heroics. Just chain running these gives you access to a full set of 378 drops as well as the JPs/VPs to buy other gear. Do that until you get the ilevel to run looking for raid (372 iirc), which will give you extra VPs and the chance of getting tier tokens, which you can use for tank stuff.

The reason I recommend playing as dps while you gear up is that PUGs may be very intolerant of undergeared tanks (pvp gear in particular will be a red-rag to them) and you risk being abused or kicked, which is just not fun. If your dps is not stellar, on the other hand, you'll probably escape much comment and almost certainly won't be kicked. While running as dps you will still get a good chance at tank drops. Etiquette implies let the tanks get first priority in 5 mans but typically they won't need the gear. In LFR, the tier tokens are for everyone and pure tank drops are a little less important, with only 2 tanks in the raid meaning they may well not want the drops anyway.

One you get bona fide tank gear (ie replace the PvP crafted gear) of the right level to do HoTs and LFR, then by all means tank but I would not stress yourself by doing it prematurely.

For gems and enchants, you need gold (although running 5 mans may give you a nice supply of enchant mats). Dailies are one way to get gold. I found Firelands dailies to be the least obnoxious while Tol Barad may be the most rewarding (that trinket, Mirror of Broken images, is still very good for the latest raid). I would at least gem and enchant 378+ gear.

I would work on your professions, just to get in shape for MoP. One gathering and one crafting can be quite painless to level. I did mining/jc on my first alt and levelling the profs seemed a breeze, plus they were quite useful profs in general and particularly for tanking. That combo could well solve your problem of gemming your gear: your mining will give you raw gems, your JCing will allow you to cut them. On my second alt, I am going herb/alchemy and levelling it is also easy although I would not have herbing on a main. My main is mining/BS and I recall BS was a pain to level; it's probably better now.

Finally, I hope you are in a good guild. They can help enormously - doing enchants or crafting gems for free (if you provide the mats) and grouping with you to help you get your first taste of tanking new instances. If you want to raid normals or heroic raids, being in an active guild is next to essential. Depending on your server, there may be PUG raids, but the full experience comes from raiding with a group of friends.