Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests Here)

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:06 pm

Well, you can't single-tank any of those fights in 25-man heroic modes, for starters.

-Beating the DPS to a glob on Yor'sahj is irrelevant. The fact that your raiders suck at moving doesn't somehow lessen the DPS gain you get from a movement talent. And again, on 25H you can't get away with a cheesy one-tank strategy.
-Zon'ozz potentially involves moving the boss to the orb when it bounces in weird directions, which can be very time-critical. Being able to move somewhere a half-second faster can make the difference between a kill and a wipe. And again, on 25-man you have two claws, so at least one tank has to move across the room to the other side.
-If you're waiting for ice waves to get out of your way, you're not spending enough time on the previous crystal. You can sit on one crystal, then run straight to the next one and continue DPSing. There should be no dead time unless the previous crystal died early, which should only happen once unless you allocate your DPS players poorly. And again, in ice phase having the extra movement speed can make a big difference if someone drops a frost patch in a bad location.
-The size of the ship is, again, irrelevant. You're often moving across the boat to deal with encounter mechanics (either cleaving off of a rider to the drake, or moving riders to the explosion patches, or moving anything out of fire). I'm not sure how it's done on 10-man, but on 25H, you can't just tank everything in the center.
-Extra movement gets you to the tendon faster, which lets you get an extra GCD on the only relevant DPS check in the entire encounter. It also lets you position the amalgamation faster, depending on what your tank positioning is on that fight. Note that your DPS on anything but the tendon on this fight is irrelevant, and the tendon doesn't melee you.
-Madness is a bigger platform than you give it credit for, you gain about a GCD by reducing movement time between the arm (which doesn't melee) and the tentacle (which only melees you 50% of the time, generally). And you perform that movement at least 8 times during the encounter, in addition to being able to move between the phase 3 tentacles faster. Also note that deathwing doesn't melee either, so Reckoning is particularly bad in Madness. If there's one fight in Dragon Soul where I'd consider speccing out of Reckoning completely, it's Madness.

Also consider that by not using a movement enchant, you're able to enchant 50 hit, which is a ~110-150 DPS increase, on-par with what you get from the second point of Reckoning on a two-tank fight.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Rhiannon » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:16 pm

Zon'ozz and Yor'Sahk rooms feature 25% run speed buff which doesn't stack with PoJ fyi.

Hagara you can single tank on 25 man, just need 3 external CDs really.

(Not advocating skipping PoJ for progress apart from on Ultraxion though, just being pedantic.)
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fenrìr » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:18 pm

We're not really discussing 25 man, Theck. He asked about stepping into 10 man Heroic. 25 man is a different beast and you're able that luxury of having an extra tank.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm

Rhiannon wrote:Zon'ozz and Yor'Sahk rooms feature 25% run speed buff which doesn't stack with PoJ fyi.

Huh, really? I've never noticed that. Do you happen to know what it's called?
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:34 pm

Fenrìr wrote:We're not really discussing 25 man, Theck. He asked about stepping into 10 man Heroic. 25 man is a different beast and you're able that luxury of having an extra tank.

While I was pretty specific about 25H, my point wasn't really limited to that. Run speed has always been a bit of a personal choice. Some people value it, others don't. It's often hard to put a number on it, because it performs a variety of functions - it gets you to the target faster (increased DPS), it gets you out of the fire faster (fewer deaths), and gives you more reaction time (compensates for loss of attention and/or mistakes). Generally, I feel the sum of those benefits outweigh the DPS cost (in this case, the second point of Reckoning and/or a point in Eye for an Eye). Others will disagree, as you do. But I don't think that you're going to have much luck proving it either way.

That's why I'm responding at all. You're recommending against it, I'm offering a counter-recommendation. I don't think he'd be wrong (or unable to down bosses) with either choice, but I also don't want anyone to get the impression that everyone agrees on the matter.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Rhiannon » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:38 pm

theckhd wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:Zon'ozz and Yor'Sahk rooms feature 25% run speed buff which doesn't stack with PoJ fyi.

Huh, really? I've never noticed that. Do you happen to know what it's called?


It doesn't appear as a buff, just if you check your run speed in character sheet when in those rooms it'll show 125% rather than 115%.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby lythac » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:33 am

Rhiannon wrote:
theckhd wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:Zon'ozz and Yor'Sahk rooms feature 25% run speed buff which doesn't stack with PoJ fyi.

Huh, really? I've never noticed that. Do you happen to know what it's called?


It doesn't appear as a buff, just if you check your run speed in character sheet when in those rooms it'll show 125% rather than 115%.


I know this one!

It is called Speed.

Found on MMO-Database by this search - http://db.mmo-champion.com/spells/?id__ ... l__aura=31 not sure how you search for run speed on wowhead.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby palapower » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:26 am

Hi !
I am very satisfied with my setup right now, but i need some advices on my gear, since last night i noticed some problems with keeping aggro on mobs at Firelands.
Im exactly 102.45% capped with Raid Buffs (Druid/DK or Warr Buff) and Mastery/Stamina Food ... all carefully calculated through chardev(dot)org (amazing site) like some of you guys pointed me to use.
Question is: Should i reforge or gem for threat ? Is there anything should i change ?
Thanks !

Sorry, my armory : us.battle.net/wow/en/character/goldrinn/Palapower/advanced
Last edited by palapower on Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Maklesh » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:04 am

You shouldn't ever have to gem or reforge for threat.
With the (recent-ish) changes to threat the only time threat could (or should) be a problem is at the start of a fight. If you're having problems there try to start with divine plea popped and wing for some initial burst threat.

If you're just having problem with generating threat in general you can check out Thecks post about TPS at MATLAB TPS 4.0 (there's a tldr summary at the bottom of the post if you don't like numbers ;))

If that doesnt help just ask the dps to chill!
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby palapower » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:12 am

Thanks for the answer !
I will check the Teck's TPS link and read about it !
You are right about the pull situation, i dont have a problem there, since i pull DP/Inq/AW/Exor !
The problem start when i have more than 1 mob, then i start to loose aggro very quickly.
Well, anyways im happy to read the problem isnt with my gem/reforge strategy.
One more question: Is it related to my low DPS ? I think im doing (last checked) about 16k DPS on Bosses.
Thanks !
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Schroom » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:45 am

maklesh is about right, you shouldn't reforge/gem for threat, but if your gear is good enough that tank survival is no longer a problem, and your healers are ok with it. you can gem reforge for more Tank DPS. they can be quite precious, especially in hardmodes.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby palapower » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:14 am

Actually im fine with my gear, and normally i would not reforge/gem for threat.
The problem arrise when yesterday i saw so many aggro looses. So, the question came in my mind.
But no its clear ! Thank you !
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby econ21 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:24 pm

palapower wrote:The problem start when i have more than 1 mob, then i start to loose aggro very quickly.


Yes, I've started to experience this: most obviously on the 3 ooze trash packs before Yorshaj. It's common for one to start waivering and thinking about going for another raid member (tidyplates makes it obvious). I think it's largely because I have glyphed my shield to be single target. We don't consecrate much. HW is a damp squib and HotR is ok but perhaps does not compete with the dps. The dps's output is scaling with gear whereas our AOE threat is not so much (as we tend to take low damage and have low vengeance in AOE).

What I've started to do now to compensate is tab targetting, something I've never had to do on my pally before. I just rotate across the 3 oozes - a bit of white damage or better a shield to the face is enough to lock them down. But relying solely on splash damage is not doing it for me anymore.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Schroom » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:31 am

yes, I know the problem on the oozes, even on exp softcap. tabbing through will resolve the issue tho.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Harb » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:59 pm

just a quick question on trinkets for tanking
Here is my armoury link - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/p ... u/advanced
Hi All just wondering what you other pally tanks would swap out.

I have just received Indomitable Pride and would like some advice on which trinket to switch out Soulshifter Vortex or Fire of the Deep

i was thinking Soulshifter Vortex so keeping one stam one avoidance trinket. What are your thoughts?

Thanks in advance
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby econ21 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:55 pm

Harb wrote:i was thinking Soulshifter Vortex so keeping one stam one avoidance trinket.


The proc on the Vortex is wasted on us, so I'd agree with you.

I've seen highly geared palatanks using the Vortex as a chunk of stamina, as they don't need a mastery trinket to be block capped, but at your gear level, I suspect it's not the most efficient place to get stamina (as it comes at the cost of a wasted proc).

The on use ability of Fire of the Deep is a nice additional CD by contrast.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Katzie » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:15 am

Hi all!!! I've been tanking on my warrior since Vanilla, and just made a paladin at the end of Ulduar, and have used this site and EJ a lot to make sure I am top notch for tanking. Now I am just a bit casual, but I do want to get into a DS10 run.

With that said, here is my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/w ... zie/simple

I am wondering if I can tank DS10 regular all 8 bosses fine. I am only CTC capped when I get full stacks of my trinket up. Also, I have 2 stam trinkets in my bags that I don't use because if I do use them, my CTC will be severely gimped.

I would also like suggestions on improving my gear. :) (I don't have the exalted shoulder enchant though I know that)
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fenrìr » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:27 am

@Katzie

I feel that seeing changes is a lot better than words.

http://chardev.org/?profile=360455


I did not change any gear as I do not know what you may have available to you while at work. I do recommend trying to get the Tier Helm and using the Morloot shoulders over Tier; but at the 384-397 ilvl range, the tier shoulders may be better than the tier gloves (I'll have to check on that).

You may want to start getting your hands on a different trinket over Resolve of Undying. I personally do not like it and feel that it can potentially be a killer if you do find yourself not hitting something for 10 seconds. I like having static trinkets with on use abilities if they have an ability to use as it's something I can control for the moments I need it.

I would really work on your TB rep for the Mirror of Broken Images and attempt to get into some Firelands clears for Avenger's of Hyjal Rep for the ring/trinket as well. Not to mention, some of the gear from Firelands will help you such as Scales of Life, Spidersilk Spindle.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Katzie » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:11 pm

@ Fenrir

Awesome!! Thank you for the suggestions! I am wondering if grinding all that rep for the TB trinket is worth it, most likely I'd only be getting it for the Use effect, but how much is 400 resist really? I know a lot of the fights in DS10 have magic damage, but would I be using that trinket over say the Spidersilk Spindle? For some reason, I have overlooked that trinket somehow, and to me, that is my main priority right now.

About the shoulders, I will take you up on that. Hopefully I can get in a DS10 group and those shoulders drop, then I can use a token for the set piece.

And yeah, Morchok will be bad if I use the Resolve trinket, since unless I bubble and stay in the blood, I'll lose those stacks. Good insight.

Also, I am assuming regemming will net me more stamina? I see tanks that have less gear than me have more HP than I do. I always think I am doing something wrong.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fenrìr » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:54 am

400 resist is quite a bit on Yor'sahj's Void Bolts and Warlord's Physic Drain. Do not underestimate those cause they can kill you if the healers lax or you get a back streak of hits.

You may not be doing anything wrong when comparing to other tanks. It all resides in your decisions and how you/your healers feel when you're tanking and taking damage. That's what I like about Chardev, I can adjust gems/reforges quickly and see the changes to how they relate to the buffs I know I have in a raid.

My go to trinkets for almost every fight in DS is Heroic Scales of Life and Heroic Spidersilk Spindle (mostly because I have yet to see Indom Pride >,<).
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Advice and help on my Pala tank

Postby Aeilene » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:56 am

Hi there,

Hope someone will take some time to help me here,

What are the important caps that i need to focus on now a days, and where is the next natural step for me to go for getting some better gear DS 10 man HCs or ?

Gear i should consider swapping ? Respec ?

If i go with another tank they usually outaggro me and i have to taunt and struggle a bit so all info that could help out is most appreciated.

link to my paladin,

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/bloodscalp/Drakaie/simple
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby econ21 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:30 am

I can't help you with heroic tanking, but a few comments:

- On the other tank out-aggroing you, this should not really happen if you are both playing well. I wonder if the other tank is bad at handling tank switches? If he has vengeance, but you taunt off him, it may be that he has to ease off a little to let you build up threat. What kind of dps are the two of you doing? If you are doing much lower dps, unless he vastly outgears you, you might have to work on your rotation. Omen and threatplates are nice addons for managing with threat (make sure you co-tank has them too!). Where there are adds, I like marking skull and cross on targets, and making sure my co-tank knows whose tanking which.

- In terms of caps, the key one is 102.4% combat table coverage. Do you have that? I would not worry about threat and expertise except for Ultraxion, when you'd switch some pieces.

- I am not a fan of your trinket choices - they make me suspect you are not at 102.4%, at least not without the dodge stacks from your trinket. I'd go for the VP trinket and perhaps an alternative stamina one - if you are at 102.4% CTC, the proc on yours is wasted.

- Your gemming is a little erratic. You don't want hit, expertise or dodge on the gems in your survival gear. Have a look at Digren's guide to gear enhancement.

- On your spec, you might consider focussed shield instead of dazing for some more single target threat. I found it helped a bit when I tanked with a cat in bear form (he was wearing dps gear and pushed me for a threat). Personally, I'd put 2 into pursuit of justice or nothing. A boot enchant would substitute for 1 pt in it. The spare 1 might come from reckoning.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby gronc2 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:10 am

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/g ... onc/simple

how is this set up for DS raids? I am specifically thinking about the amount of unblockable damage, and glyphed for Ultraxion fight. I hit ctc cap with master elixir and dodge food, and I am using prismatic elixir for more resistance as well. I am using the trinket for resistance.

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:19 am

gronc2 wrote:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/gundrak/Gronc/simple

how is this set up for DS raids? I am specifically thinking about the amount of unblockable damage, and glyphed for Ultraxion fight. I hit ctc cap with master elixir and dodge food, and I am using prismatic elixir for more resistance as well. I am using the trinket for resistance.

gronc


Why dodge food and not mastery food? If you're already going to the effort of using a mastery elixir, you might as well use the food as well (and squeeze more hp of out of your gems that way).

In general your gear is fine for normal DS. Although that purple gem in your shoulders (in the blue socket) kind of sticks out a bit - I'd've used pure stam. You could probably upgrade your chest enchant to the higher stamina one... but you're likely waiting on a better upgrade.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby gronc2 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:43 am

That is a mistake, I am color blind must have just slammed it in their without looking at the description carefully. I use the dodge food because in my realm the mastery food is never on AH, and I can't fish the lavascale yet. My flat mate has the recipes so I just give him the mud fish and he gives me dodge food. I will be replacing chest asap so you were very perceptive :)

thanks heaps, other thoughts?

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