Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Sagara » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:58 am

There's an Agi tank cloak. I think the "apply your enchant to your cloak" thing does make sense, but I wouldn't consider the bearskin sold until we actually skinned it...
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Gruck » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:46 am

The legendary tank enchant seems to me like the ardent defender we used to have: A passive talent that saves your ass every once in a while. However, there might be some fights where this could become more than useful, but most of the time (from my experience) you either die anyways or have something else to use (e.g. new Sacred Shield and still ardent defender or course). If this would safe yourself in fights like Ra-Den (one hit kills), this would be really great. I guess this also depends on how much additional damage the dd enchant will bring...
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Sagara » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:53 am

Well, I do remember us being totally in love with the passive Ardent Defender, but I think it had something else that made it the awesome tool it was.

EDIT: Right - it had an heal included to counteract the deadly attack.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby daishan » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:08 am

If I'm reading the new proc correctly it'll be even stronger than the old AD.

"FULLY absorbs the damage of one attack that would normally kill you."

To me that sounds like you could take a decapitate or high stacked massive attack to the face and loose zero hp, assuming that it was a big enough single hit to normally kill you.
Ofc on smaller hits it won't be quite as strong but still a 1 min cd!
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Ironshield » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:16 am

But smaller hits wouldn't normally kill you unless you were desperately reaching for Lay on Hands anyway. Except of course if that big hit only takes 99% of your health and then a melee hit comes after it it could be annoying.

I'm guessing we're going to need to get an addon or aura to track this ASAP, or nubsoaking avoidable big hits while this is on CD could cause some frustration.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Thels » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:21 am

Sagara wrote:Well, I do remember us being totally in love with the passive Ardent Defender, but I think it had something else that made it the awesome tool it was.

EDIT: Right - it had an heal included to counteract the deadly attack.


I don't think there's really that much difference between being brought to 1 hp and then healed up for a bit, or having the entire hit absorbed. It's the passive cheat death itself that makes it amazing.

And yeah, there is a "tanking" agi cloak (which is weird, since the Brewmaster/Guardian tier pieces don't even have "tanking" stats on them). I doubt they'll lock us out of certain legendary effects just because we picked different stats than what the itemization team deems best for us.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Sagara » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:27 am

Well, technically, they could say "the right cloak is available at the Quartermaster, only 10k!"
Low blow, but hey!
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Thels » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:39 am

Right now you can't get a second version of the cloak, can you?
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Worldie » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:44 am

You can if you sell your cloak, costs a few thousands gold.

You just can't have 2 cloaks at the same time, that's it, but they said they are considering fixing that in 5.4
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby daishan » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:58 am

Thels wrote:I don't think there's really that much difference between being brought to 1 hp and then healed up for a bit, or having the entire hit absorbed. It's the passive cheat death itself that makes it amazing.


Definitely the cheat death that makes it amazing but on a fight with a nasty dot that ticks every 0.5 sec the absorb version looses some of its value as it'll only give you and your healers an extra 0.5 sec.
Where as on a boss that does occasional 800k single hit specials the absorb version becomes massively op.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:18 am

Or maybe the enchant will be an item you can buy (the first is a quest reward) so that you can choose which "enchant" to put on the cloak that you like best.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Gruck » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:49 am

daishan wrote:Definitely the cheat death that makes it amazing but on a fight with a nasty dot that ticks every 0.5 sec the absorb version looses some of its value as it'll only give you and your healers an extra 0.5 sec.
Where as on a boss that does occasional 800k single hit specials the absorb version becomes massively op.

You're right: It really depends on the encounter design or the design of the whole raid tier. If there will be several bosses with one-shot mechanics, it'll be worth taking. Do we already know if the damage enchant will scale as good as the meta gem does today?
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Fetzie » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:40 am

Gruck wrote:
daishan wrote:Definitely the cheat death that makes it amazing but on a fight with a nasty dot that ticks every 0.5 sec the absorb version looses some of its value as it'll only give you and your healers an extra 0.5 sec.
Where as on a boss that does occasional 800k single hit specials the absorb version becomes massively op.

You're right: It really depends on the encounter design or the design of the whole raid tier. If there will be several bosses with one-shot mechanics, it'll be worth taking. Do we already know if the damage enchant will scale as good as the meta gem does today?


Depends on the proc rate. It also scales with weapon damage, not pure attack power like the meta gem.

...and whether or not it procs Seal of Insight (if it does, then having six 50+k heals within two seconds would be awesome):)
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Ironshield » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:18 am

http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/146193-endurance-of-niuzao
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby daishan » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:26 am

I think Fetzie was meaning what's the proc rate of the dps cloak.
If it's high enough we'll probably want the dps one for add fights.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Sagara » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:31 am

Oh, maybe even on solo fights. I'm guessing that unless you're a) pushing week 2 heroics or b) the weakest link in the group, you're not going to get much mileage off the tank enchant. Now the question is how much mileage you're willing to lose to get a nice DPS proc.

Also, it's going to be really interesting to see wether SoI procs off Xuen's proc.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Thorill » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:54 am

Sagara wrote:Well, technically, they could say "the right cloak is available at the Quartermaster, only 10k!"
Low blow, but hey!

Looking at mmo-champ today, it appears the legendary effect is tied to the tanking cloak only. http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/102245-qian-le-courage-of-niuzao
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Kelerei » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:57 am

Noticed this too: http://ptr.wowhead.com/search?q=date%3A2013-07-03

Seems like the upgrade is to the entire cloak, so those with the tanking cloak will get the tank effect, those with the DPS cloak will get the DPS effect... which really puts us tankadins between a rock and a hard place.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Thels » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:20 am

:(

I wonder how many Brewmasters and Guardians actually took the Dodge cloak.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Fenrìr » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:27 am

Unless there's some mechanic that requires a cheesing effect, I really don't see myself getting the tank one (unless they allow us to have two).
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:30 am

Honestly speaking, in heroic progress, it can happen that stuff goes wrong, and a healer dies or healers can't heal, and you take that blow that lands 0.1 seconds before the heal, and wipe.

Not having the cheat death effect on heroic progress, unless it's an EXTREMELY TIGHT dps race, is stupid, very stupid, and in fact selfish, as you show you care more for your e-peen on the meters rather than to doing your job.

Stop being obsessed with topping damage meters.

The reason for which you stack haste is that it increases Paladin survivability, and also has the side effect of increasing the DPS. If haste didn't increase your survivability, you'd be stacking MASTERY like warriors and dks, which does NOTHING for dps.

The main reason for which some tanks use the DPS meta instead of the tank one is that the tank one is RNG and thus you can't count on it. If it was a flat % damage reduction, you'd use it all the time.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Treck » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:28 am

Fenrìr wrote:Unless there's some mechanic that requires a cheesing effect, I really don't see myself getting the tank one (unless they allow us to have two).

1k haste (were gonna haste cap in SoO gear anyway)
or a lifesaver every 1 freaking minute...
Get your priorities as a tank straight tbh.

Maybe, just MAYBE after 3 months of farm i could be interested in taking the dps version, procc on the dps one doesnt seem to insane either.

The tank one lets you play incredibly recklessly as well before it proccs if you wanna do that.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:45 am

Sometimes I wish I had you in my friendlist treck!
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Treck » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:54 am

My Realid is on this forum :P

About the cloaks, I want to dig deeper on it a bit.
Tank cloak beeing able to procc once a min is incredibly overpowered for progress.
But so is the tank meta gem.
Its just relative to what you can choose.
We dont quite know how big of a dps increase the dps cloak procc will be, and sure the haste and useless crit will help do more dps.
If that procc stands for about 10% dps increase? then yeh sure I can see its arguable to use that cloak in certain situations if they allow us to have one of each at the same time.

We will have to wait untill its on PTR to see the full extent on it.
But they have constantly been nerfing passive lifesavers for tanks cause they are to good (old AD!?)
Purgatory seems to have been staying for a while, but only due to the fact that DKs are so weak compared to the other classes in terms of their Active mitigation.
Looking into new expansions, I wouldnt be suprised if this cloak keeps having its uses...
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Re: Oxhorn Bladebreaker vs Tigerclaw Cape

Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:56 am

I'd not be surprised if both the legendary meta and the legendary cloak get a "wont work past level 90" affix when 6.0 is released.
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