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Tier 14 offset piece?

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Tier 14 offset piece?

Postby Rokuu » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:20 am

Hey, I have been looking for posts about this and havent find anything yet. Give some link if im wrong.

So, I want to get some info from people who are more in to theorycrafting etc. Is there some tier piece we should definitely replace with some offset piece and what is it? I personally think gloves and legs are our weakest pieces, but I havent really though it that much, it just my first thought about this. Obviously we want to have 4-set bonus, but there is still one piece wich we can replace.

There is some nice haste gear with exp or mastery wich I find very nice offpieces.

Anyways, discuss. Would like to have some serious thoughts about this.
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Re: Tier 14 offset piece?

Postby ZBrass » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:21 am

I've only been visiting this site regularly for a couple months, so forgive me if I'm wrong and please take everything I say not as fact but as my own thoughts on the matter. Wait for someone who knows what they're doing with all this to comment before making any life-altering decisions, but based on what I've been reading these are my conclusions:

I would disagree about the gloves being a weaker choice. Theck has pointed out a few times that some of our best pieces are the ones that have reduced Strength itemization in order to have a large chunk of rating on them, and the gloves are just that. The normal tier 14 gloves have 909 dodge, of which we can reforge away 364 into haste or expertise, and as it already has hit on it that gives us two very attractive stats and dodge, which is never a bad thing to have. If you look at the only other option at that item level, the Windblade Talons from HoF, they have smaller quantities of both dodge and parry, and if you're going for the control build it makes them a weaker piece overall.

I would probably agree that the legs are not a strong choice, as the dodge on them is in fact pretty low (715 for the normal version). In that case I would look at the ret piece and I see a strong choice (exp and mastery).

That said, if I had to choose a single piece to replace of the normal set, I would probably strongly consider replacing the chest. White Tiger Chestguard looks like a good piece with parry (which is generally diminished less than dodge) and hit, but if you can pick up Carapace of Crushed Conviction or Ravaging Warrior's Chestpiece I would guess that either one is a better pick with the expertise, and the Ravaging Warrior having 457 rating that you can pull out of dodge and put into haste or mastery makes it very pretty imo. Also I would take a look at the sockets of each, Ravaging Warrior and Crushed Carapace both have a blue socket, so total we would gain an additional 360 stamina and 160 exp (blue gem = 240, purple gem = 120 sta / 160 exp), plus 120 str for a socket bonus which is almost 1:1 parry (Ravaging Warrior is at a disadvantage here, since it actually loses Str to have that high Dodge). With the tier piece you're looking at two yellow sockets, which would only give 240 sta and 320 in hit or haste or mastery to gain a socket bonus of 120 parry. Personally I'm probably aiming for the chest off Galleon if I can get the other 4 pieces.
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Re: Tier 14 offset piece?

Postby Rokuu » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:26 pm

No more opinions about this? o.O Or am I just getting laughes, cause it is so obvious?

I personally think that legguards are quite bad choise, cause you lose one socket over Zor'lok leggings without any stamina gain. Same goes with gloves, but we get hit from gloves so I find them better choice.

That galleon chest is very nice, but there is no HC version, so it wont beat hc raid chests.
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Re: Tier 14 offset piece?

Postby Rhagen » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:58 pm

Personally plan to use the Elegon Hit/haste gloves myself for my Off piece cause they are quite nice.
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Re: Tier 14 offset piece?

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:49 pm

I think the legs are the weak piece. Consider:
Item comparison

After reforging, heroic Articulated Legplates over heroic tier gives you:
+150 Stam
-291 STR
-553 Mast
-821 Dodge
+780 Parry
+520 Expertise
+251 Hit

Heroic Starcrusher over heroic tier gives you:
+143 Stamina
+102 Strength
-78 Armor
-616 dodge
-159 exp
+438 haste
+34 hit

The lower strength itemization on both the tier gloves and the Articulated Legplates make them superior to the alternatives.
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Re: Tier 14 offset piece?

Postby Rokuu » Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:40 pm

oh that strength difference is quite huge on those legs, didn't even pay any attention to it before :o

But yeah, my choice will still be legs. Thanks theck for your comment and opinion.
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Re: Tier 14 offset piece?

Postby Rhagen » Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:46 pm

Just noticed that myself, my gear choice just changed :p Thanks theck for the clearup your the best! Keep up the awesome work you do for us Prot paladins : D
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Re: Tier 14 offset piece?

Postby theothersteve7 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:20 am

The difference in strength and stamina itemization is the deciding factor in a lot of cases, especially with haste gear. It's the reason my Ret set has so little overlap with my Prot set. It's definitely a factor that you should pay attention to.
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Re: Tier 14 offset piece?

Postby theckhd » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:45 am

Honorable mention should go to Grasps of Serpentine Might, another lower-STR itemized piece from Tsulong. I overlooked it because wowhead doesn't seem to have a heroic version, so I don't know if one exists or not. But normal (496) Grasps of Serpentine Might vs. normal (496) White Tiger Handguards gives you:

+240 STA
-80 STR
-546 dodge
+582 parry
+57 expertise
-113 hit

Assuming that a) there's a heroic version of these, or b) you're only interested in normal modes, tier legs + Grasps of SM is the highest-stamina choice by about 90 stam. But it comes at a tremendous cost in hit/exp:

(Heroic tier legs + GoSM) vs. (Heroic articulated legplates + normal tier gloves):
+90 STA
+211 STR
+553 mastery
+77 avoidance (dodge+parry)
-821 hit+exp

You're paying almost 10:1 itemization cost in hit/exp for that stam, far worse than you'd get from gems/enchants/trinkets/etc. The only way it makes sense to take this combination is if you're already hit/exp capped through reforges with that setup and you're already gemmed stamina (solid gems, not hybrid) in every socket and using dual stam trinkets and enchanted for stamina in every slot (even the +40 stamina wrist enchant is a better trade-off than this). That's not likely to cover many people
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Re: Tier 14 offset piece?

Postby Rokuu » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:25 am

What do you guys think about retribution tier legplates, looks fairly good to me!
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Re: Tier 14 offset piece?

Postby daishan » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:40 am

Ret legs are nice, just don't forget they only have 1 socket compared with 2 sockets on Articulated Legplates and Jang-xi's Devastating Legplates.
I'm using the Articulated Legplates legs as they have lower strength so a load of parry to re forge, the only problem with both of those compared with the Ret ones is they have hit on, for me personally at least i'm starting to have problems reforging enough hit off my gear to get down to cap.
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Re: Tier 14 offset piece?

Postby Rokuu » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:19 am

Yes, also starting to have alot of hit already to be a bit overcapped actually, that why I considered those ret legs. That socket is indeed little problem, but I dont find it that huge tbh, that expertise and mastery from ret legs looks really nice to me. Sad is that I already upgraded those Articulated legplates =P
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