Remove Advertisements

resolve of undying

Get help with your character's gear

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, majiben, lythac, Digren

Re: resolve of undying

Postby Paoanii » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:37 am

theckhd wrote:
Paoanii wrote:I'm essentially trading 117 stam and 265 mastery for 880 dodge, a trade I'm more than willing to make for a fight like Morchok or Warmaster Blackhorn that is largely physical damage.


I'm not sure those are the best examples. Morchok's Stomp, which can't be dodged, hits harder than his melees on heroic mode. And about half of Blackhorn's damage is Disrupting Roar, which isn't a melee attack.

My point though is that most of the damage on the tank is concentrated into things that CAN be avoided, like Morchok's melees or Blackhorn's Devastates and Melees as opposed to a fight like Yor'sahj where almost 80% of the tank damage is Void Bolt, or Zon'ozz where about 40% is magic damage from different sources.
Image
Paoanii
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:49 am

Re: resolve of undying

Postby theckhd » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:57 am

Paoanii wrote:
theckhd wrote:
Paoanii wrote:I'm essentially trading 117 stam and 265 mastery for 880 dodge, a trade I'm more than willing to make for a fight like Morchok or Warmaster Blackhorn that is largely physical damage.


I'm not sure those are the best examples. Morchok's Stomp, which can't be dodged, hits harder than his melees on heroic mode. And about half of Blackhorn's damage is Disrupting Roar, which isn't a melee attack.

My point though is that most of the damage on the tank is concentrated into things that CAN be avoided, like Morchok's melees or Blackhorn's Devastates and Melees as opposed to a fight like Yor'sahj where almost 80% of the tank damage is Void Bolt, or Zon'ozz where about 40% is magic damage from different sources.

I understand your point, but I'm saying that in neither of those cases is the damage concentrated in avoidable melee attacks. In 25H Morchok's case, around 30% of your overall damage taken is Stomp. However, it can be closer to 50% of the damage in a death scenario (~130k plus one or two 75-80k blocked melee attacks). In 25N Blackhorn's case, around 60% of the damage you're taking is from Disrupting Roar. Again, your death scenario is going to be Roar + melee + melee. So it's not much different than Zon'ozz's damage breakdown, which you're using as an example of a fight where the trinket isn't that good.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7709
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: resolve of undying

Postby Paoanii » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:34 am

theckhd wrote:
Paoanii wrote:
theckhd wrote:I'm not sure those are the best examples. Morchok's Stomp, which can't be dodged, hits harder than his melees on heroic mode. And about half of Blackhorn's damage is Disrupting Roar, which isn't a melee attack.

My point though is that most of the damage on the tank is concentrated into things that CAN be avoided, like Morchok's melees or Blackhorn's Devastates and Melees as opposed to a fight like Yor'sahj where almost 80% of the tank damage is Void Bolt, or Zon'ozz where about 40% is magic damage from different sources.

I understand your point, but I'm saying that in neither of those cases is the damage concentrated in avoidable melee attacks. In 25H Morchok's case, around 30% of your overall damage taken is Stomp. However, it can be closer to 50% of the damage in a death scenario (~130k plus one or two 75-80k blocked melee attacks). In 25N Blackhorn's case, around 60% of the damage you're taking is from Disrupting Roar. Again, your death scenario is going to be Roar + melee + melee. So it's not much different than Zon'ozz's damage breakdown, which you're using as an example of a fight where the trinket isn't that good.


It seems like our arguments just boil down to a difference between 10s and 25s in that case. I'm speaking from a 10 man perspective, where Blackhorn's Melees and Devastates are over 85% of his damage done. I'll concede that you're right in that case, if 40%+ of the damage is completely unavoidable (in terms of dodge/parry that is) I would definitely stick with the stam trinket, that just doesn't seem to be the case very often on 10 man.
Image
Paoanii
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:49 am

Re: resolve of undying

Postby Treck » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:13 pm

Devastates are also very reliable on a timer, that means reliable to CD once his vengeance stacks high enough.
But his devastate standing for 85% dmg doesnt seem right.
Im sure it does more dmg than roar (on the tank) problem is the healing during the roar, and like i said, Devastates are easy to CD (so is the roar fyi)
Image
User avatar
Treck
 
Posts: 2120
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:10 am

Re: resolve of undying

Postby Paoanii » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:23 pm

I'm saying devastates and melee damage, the 2 sources that can be dodge/parried, but you're right, its really easy to have a CD up for every devastate/roar.
Image
Paoanii
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:49 am

Re: resolve of undying

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:29 pm

Treck wrote:Devastates are also very reliable on a timer, that means reliable to CD once his vengeance stacks high enough.
But his devastate standing for 85% dmg doesnt seem right.
Im sure it does more dmg than roar (on the tank) problem is the healing during the roar, and like i said, Devastates are easy to CD (so is the roar fyi)


What timers are you using? cause I can't see devestate?
2Cute2BeStr8
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: resolve of undying

Postby Treck » Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:57 pm

Our own bigwigs.
Image
User avatar
Treck
 
Posts: 2120
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:10 am

Re: resolve of undying

Postby Ironshield » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:16 am

Just a word on the stacking, I got this trinket quite early on, think it's the lfr one actually, and it stacks up to 10 stacks pretty quickly on a target dummy and feels like AGES before it drops off, though I think it's just 10seconds but still more than enough time to be attacking something to refresh it. Possibly might drop off on Morchok's blood.

I haven't actually used it anywhere yet as although I suppose it should be a EH gain over the 383 mastery, it's definitely not a CTC gain and I was testing very close to the cap. Could experiment now that I've freed up a trinket slot but it won't be optimal any time soon.
Image
Ironshield
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:46 pm

Re: resolve of undying

Postby Fenrìr » Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:33 am

DXE has been really good this patch as well.
Image
Fenrìr
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1237
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:41 am

Re: resolve of undying

Postby Raive » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:39 pm

I've been using this trinket for lack of a better one (I was still using the moonwell phial until I got it), and rather than stacking two mastery trinkets.
It stacks incredibly fast, pretty much any attack you throw including auto attacks grant a stack, capping out at 10 in around 5 seconds or so. The only time I've had it fall off is during heroic dungeons where I'm running around all the time, though I'm sure theres some raid fights that its fallen off and I just havent paid enough attention to it.
That being said, I agree its pretty underwhelming especially compared to the other roles version of the trinkets from spine, I think they need to go the healer trinket route and tag on a static stamina counterpart to the trinket to make it more appealing.
I'll likely replace it either way with the stam trinket that gives the absorb shield (name escapes me and I'm at work atm) but we havent so much as seen it drop yet.
Raive
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:38 pm

Re: resolve of undying

Postby Cowmmunion » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:05 pm

I picked this up last night and I'm... conflicted. I figure I could use it with the valor on use dodge proc, run ~3-4% under CTC (depending on what the value of the 8 stacks turns out to be) and just pop my dodge trinket for the start to cover the CTC gap until the stacks build. It would replace my 575 stamina with random dodge proc - so the question it leaves me asking is if ~880 dodge is worth 575 stamina + random proc.

It feels like an obvious yes... but it's just random avoidance. I guess the true question is - how much mastery can I convert to Stamina with this trinket? Envelope math tells me 880 dodge = ~400 mastery worth of CTC, which is ~600 stamina. So assuming perfect use, and using the on-use proc to cover for the downtime, I'd roughly break even on stamina, convert 5% block to dodge, and lose the random proc. I'm not sure the 1149 dodge for 20 seconds on a 1 or 2 minute ICD (I don't know which) is worth all that much to me.

So it seems it is worth replacing a Veil of Lies with a 403 Resolve of Undying, assuming my envelope math is at all correct.

Edit: Math was incorrect. Test Dummy shows that full stacks are ~4% CTC, which translates to ~478 stamina. Way Way behind any mastery or stamina trinket, plus those all have some sort of proc. Completely useless.
Cowmmunion
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:12 am

Re: resolve of undying

Postby Hrobertgar » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:55 am

I put this in my avoidance set for those fights where the boss applies an avoidable stacking debuff. But for normal tanking I NEVER trade mastery for more avoidance, as long as I can maintain CTC with block I always go stam or hit/exp. However, to avoid those avoidable stacking debuffs, I even put avoidance gems in anything that is used only in my avoidance set.

There are a few fights where CTC isn't that critical and some combo of stam/resist is better, unfortunately I am limited in my T13 stam trinkets atm, and only have Mirror for resists (never got Sindy's Fang).
Never Pug a random Troll Heroic, always wait for the guild group.

Hrobearina - 85 Healer - space goat
Hrobertgar - 85 Tank - human
Hrobernia - 85 Arcane - human
Hrobanka - 85 BM - elf
Hrobertgar
 
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:42 pm

Re: resolve of undying

Postby Cowmmunion » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:26 am

The only fight I can think of this being useful for in DS is perhaps Phase 2 of Blackhorn. Maybe solo tanking normal Morchok, but it's pretty silly to gear for that fight. Void Bolt isn't avoidable, Tetanus isn't avoidable, and I can't think of anything else stacking on the tank.
Cowmmunion
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:12 am

Re: resolve of undying

Postby Treck » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:12 pm

If theres any fight you choose a mastery trinket for its passive ctc, resolve of undying would likely result in more CTC, and especially more dmg reduction since its 100% avoiding damage instead of just a block.
Image
User avatar
Treck
 
Posts: 2120
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:10 am

Re: resolve of undying

Postby Cowmmunion » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:48 pm

More damage reduction, I'd agree. But, for example, fire of the deeps is 458 mastery + on use dodge proc. At my current (low) Dodge level, Resolve is 4% CTC = ~315 mastery, so it's only 2/3rds the CTC (and than you still have the dodge proc).
Cowmmunion
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:12 am

PreviousNext

Return to Gear Discussions and Advice

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest