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Offspec tank VS Ragnaros 25HC

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Offspec tank VS Ragnaros 25HC

Postby Cicela » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:41 am

Firstly: Sorry if this is in the wrong forum section.

I am a Holy Paladin, in a guild where we lack tanks that show up for whatever reason. We normally have 3 tanks ready to go (plus a trial that hasn't showed for a single raid yet), any day of the week, but as of later they have failed to show due to work, hospital or crashed computers and I've been put on the glorious job of tanking as my offspec is just tank. So I was sent to this site last night by our main tank, and I've read little here and there to see where I'm actually doing wrong. I'm not doing a terrible job, but it's nowhere near what I should be doing in all the aspects. My DPS as a tank is terrible, my threat seems a bit off (loosing aggro to the main tank was a big issue in last nights raid) but the general knowledge of the class is above standards.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... a/advanced

My gear choices is mainly based on what has been available for me to get in the raids we do, but all upgrades (besides Firestone upgrades) should be easy accessable as our normal tanks are geared to the teeth at this point. I'm currently at 103.26 avoidance according to a macro our main tank gave me, and I realise that I can drop a bit of mastery, dodge or parry in either way to stack more stamina for a better health pool. But exactly how much can I drop below the CTC cap that my buffs can get back? Mastery food and stamina flask is what I normally go for, then I got all the other necessary buffs that a 25man raid gives.

Falling back on trinket choices. I know the reputation mastery trinket is not the best choice to go for as a tank, but the extra strength boost is sort of needed for burst DPS when I taunt off the main tank the first time. This is also where I struggle to hold aggro off him as he's doing a ton more damage than I am. What would be the better trinket choice to get as going for BiS raggy style?

Rotation: CS > x > CS > x CS > x, is what i've been told and follow the best I can. I normally Judge > AS > HW > Conc priority on 'x' (SotR or Wog on 3 HP > all). Avenging Wrath when I need to taunt at the start for the extra burst DPS again, because I need it but I've been told to pop it when my vengeance is high. How do I get around the threat issue? I'm running with Seal of Light the entire fight for the extra healing as being a Holy paladin myself, I know the kind of damage tanks take. Can I afford using Seal of Truth at the start to boost my DPS, and when do I change it, how does other offtanks do? Is it even the right seal to use, do I change to Light at the start of P4? Looking at the logs our main tank is running with Seal of truth the majority of the fight, which can be the reason why I struggle with threat and DPS in comparison to him. Any tips?

http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/90498/ (Ignore the fact that I spent more time in Engulfing flames than outside of it, I'm still working on better movement.)

My spec looks to me like a standard spec a tank would normally go for, spending left over points in Retri tree to get Pursuit of Justice. Is there anything I can change in that to bring up my preformance to par with the main tank, or change for a different playstyle to what I have?

/nubtank
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Re: Offspec tank VS Ragnaros 25HC

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:56 am

Should probably be in:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7896

And seeing as I can't access the links you provided at the moment, I'll allow others to make their suggestions for you, though:

Looking at the logs our main tank is running with Seal of truth the majority of the fight, which can be the reason why I struggle with threat and DPS in comparison to him.


Is he stopping his rotation to allow you to build vengeance or clicking off Righteous Fury right after you taunt? And yes, Seal of Truth would be more effective here (especially with the glyph for "free" expertise.)

Edit: I'm assuming you've read Theck's sticky in the advanced theory forum? If not, check out the Ability Damage, Single-Target Rotation and Talent Comparison sections for ideas on how to improve your threat output.
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Re: Offspec tank VS Ragnaros 25HC

Postby Kitmajere » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:01 am

Cicela wrote:needed for burst DPS when I taunt off the main tank the first time


Having aggro issues at that very first taunt is *completely* expected. The first tank will have tons more vengeance than you, as well as stacks of the dot going. I would salv him, ask him to take it easy, make sure you taunt right into a ShoR, and go to town w/ wings and your str trinket clicky (if you're wearing it) as soon as you get a bit of vengeance going.
As far as seals go - I only really switch to seal of insight if something unusual has happened. For example, healers are dead and/or recently rezzed/oom. Perhaps throw it on at the start of P4 while you're learning it. Overall though, your standard operating procedure will be SoT, with the glyph.
If you want to push your dps/threat a bit more, read the links posted above. You can weave in inquisition for some more dps.
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Re: Offspec tank VS Ragnaros 25HC

Postby Cicela » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:29 pm

Kitmajere wrote:
Cicela wrote:needed for burst DPS when I taunt off the main tank the first time


Having aggro issues at that very first taunt is *completely* expected. The first tank will have tons more vengeance than you, as well as stacks of the dot going. I would salv him, ask him to take it easy, make sure you taunt right into a ShoR, and go to town w/ wings and your str trinket clicky (if you're wearing it) as soon as you get a bit of vengeance going.
As far as seals go - I only really switch to seal of insight if something unusual has happened. For example, healers are dead and/or recently rezzed/oom. Perhaps throw it on at the start of P4 while you're learning it. Overall though, your standard operating procedure will be SoT, with the glyph.
If you want to push your dps/threat a bit more, read the links posted above. You can weave in inquisition for some more dps.

After reading up a little more and looking through some other threads I realise that my tank partner isn't going easy on me at all, and I've taken to me to use the deeps seal for some more steady dps+higher threat. I suaually switch to seal of light when we're both capped on threat and the taunting isnt an issue anymore, but i suppose it's all a bit of prefs when tanking and trust and knowledge about the healers.

Also, random news: Our officers have decided to recruit in a new holy paladin so I'm going MS tank for Dragon Soul, wish me good luck! D:
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Re: Offspec tank VS Ragnaros 25HC

Postby Hrobertgar » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:51 pm

I would advise sticking with SoT full time, SoI is too intermittent and low in value to rely upon for heals, yet it totally gimps tank rotation + threat/dps for minimal benefit in terms of heals. SoT + glyph = hitting the boss more often and getting more HoPo for more ShotR strikes. The Censure DoT also helps with threat, keeping you somewhat close.

The first time I tanked regular Baleroc (as decimation tank) I died several times until the healers got used to it. After a couple of pulls I switched from SoT to SoI and would cast healing spells on myself as needed as well. Once the healers finally got the hang of things, I noticed I was pulling a palty 4k dps on the boss and only doing like 2k heals while we wiped to enrage. Switching back to SoT I pulled 8k (less vengeance uptime as decimation tank) and we beat the enrage. Every time I have tried SoI (Chimaeron last tier) I have had a similar result = insufficient heals while totally gimping tank dps and making tank switches dangerous.

Also, when taunt switching you can prepare ahead of time. Save up 3 HoPo, hit taunt and then whack the boss with a ShotR. At 3 HoPo, a successfull hit is substantial threat. Running SoT + Glyph will help HoPo generation and help your transistion. When I tank Raggy, I usually go first and if I land even a solid CS too soon after the other tank taunts, I usually end up with aggro again. So I usually salv myself the first time so I can rebuild HoPo quickly. Afterwards I try to remember to jsut do autoattacks for a few secs after future transitions. I actually think my co-tank is much better about backing off for transitions than I am, I feel a little guilty sometimes.

I do agree though, for the first tank switch especially, you should either salve the other tank or he should stop doing anything other than auto-attacks for a few seconds. But again, you should be running SoT + glyph, so that your co-tank can still use CS to generate HoPo for when he taunts back off of you.
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Re: Offspec tank VS Ragnaros 25HC

Postby Clefthammer » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:55 am

You may have already considered this but saving up 3HoPo just before the aggro swap then popping mastery/str trinket, hitting SotR, Divine plea for 3 more HoPo and SotR may be a feasible short term boost in threat. I have used this on occasions to get clear of other tank's threat. You lose a CS GCD but effectively gain a double full power SoTR which is a huge threat boost.

Also if there is a disco priest in your raid put them on the main tank and not you as it may be that the speed at which you can build up a high level of vengeance is being mitigated by the shields, just a thought. It was something I considered a few patches ago, what impact a disco priest may have on vengeance in the first few seconds of a fight, especially a well geared one. It would be interesting to hear people's thoughts.
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Re: Offspec tank VS Ragnaros 25HC

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:46 am

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the shields don't mess with vengeance (they used to reduce rage gains, but that was fixed awhile back.)
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