lol Prot DPS sets

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lol Prot DPS sets

Postby Kitmajere » Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:39 am

So now that FL clears are completely boring from a tank perspective, I was thinking that I'd like to push for parses a bit more than I have already. I was wondering if anyone had done the math or empirically tested a few things (I've seen a few of the posters here's parses):

* I clearly want to run 2p prot and 2p ret. However, are the pvp gloves worth it (5% CS dmg)? I read that the 5% is additive, so it isn't a huge up; but I don't have 391 gloves at the moment (damn you 10 mans) so would it be worth wearing them? Alternatively I could use gloves as part of one of 2 set bonuses.
* How much of a dps up is the Str dps meta? I currently have the 391 prot tier helm as my default setup, and the expertise on it is pretty nice for this. I don't have a ret tier helm, but I could wear Alys' helm as my off piece with a dps meta.
* How are people gemming/enchanting such gear? Should I be ok with going under the mastery cap? What's a good level of hp/CTC to maintain? I never feel in danger of dying anymore (except some P4 Rag, but I won't wear this for that yet), but I also don't want to cause any wipes or scariness by being too "squishy". On a similar same note - stam or str flask, or elixirs?

Thanks for your help!
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Re: lol Prot DPS sets

Postby Treck » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:20 am

For the lolz i run with 8% hit and 56expertise, so everything you ever do is going to hit.
I run 2x prot and 2x ret, but not pvp gloves.
Like i said ive reforged everything to reach hit and exp cap, rest is reforged into mastery.
My CTC has dropped below 90% in raids, dont wanna go to far down.
Im not sure what the BiS setup would be, but its hard judging as you cant say where the exact point between beeing healable and not is.

I dont like using pure ret parts, everything is still enchanted towards tanking (exception beeing cloak as 250 armor is so useless).
Even the ret parts are gemmed and enchanted towards tanking.
Gems are eather tanking only, or tanking with threat stats.

This was the first reset i ran with double dps trinkets, as ive done every other rag kill with the TB trinket and the mastery rep trinket with str use, same on Baleroc.
Both for its passive mastery, and the rep trinket is nice for dps aswell.

Its always fun comparing to others on logs, but its not always fair as some gets tricks/dark intent etc through the whole fight to do more.
But what can you do.
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Re: lol Prot DPS sets

Postby Kihra » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:56 pm

Hi Treck! Hate you for beating my #1 H Rag parse! <3

Anyway, I have two gear sets: one I call my Threat set, and the other one I call my Super Threat set. The Threat set uses 2pc Prot (Shoulders/Legs), 2pc Ret (Gloves/Chest) and the Baleroc helm. The Super Threat set uses 2pc Prot (Shoulders/Leg), 2pc Ret (Helm/Chest), and the PvP gloves. I also swap some gemming to Strength using backup 391 pieces like bracers, an extra Sinestra neck, and the DPS Avengers Rep Ring. In both sets I continue to use tank enchants everywhere.

Your two best DPS trinkets are the 359 License to slay and the 372 Heart of Rage. They provide much needed Hit and Expertise while having procs that give Strength. I wear these two trinkets in both of these sets.

I have about 206k health fully raid buffed in both sets. In terms of combat table coverage, the Threat set is about 88% fully buffed and the Super Threat set is 79% or so. You lose a lot swapping to the Ret helm and PvP gloves, and I haven't had the guts to try that set out on Ragnaros yet for example. Eventually I might though. :)

For food and flask you can either keep using Mastery food and Stam flask, or you can use Strength food and Strength flask. I do the latter for easy fights like Shannox, but for Heroic Ragnaros I kept doing Mastery food and Stamina flask for example.

For each fight you want to maximize your Vengeance. Some fights that is easy to do. On others it's harder.

(1) Shannox - Tank Shannox and just don't ever move. Trap Riplimb once midfight and your stacks will clear.
(2) Beth'tilac - Need to be tanking Beth the whole time to parse.
(3) Rhyolith - Need to tank the Sparks and the Fragments and have the minimum amount of add DPS on the fragments so they last nearly until the next set spawn, so you do the most DPS to them.
(4) Alysrazor - At this point you need to tank both birds (at least some of the time) to parse.
(5) Majordomo - Stupidest way to parse is to throw on ret gear and just DPS as prot. You don't get targeted by seeds, so you keep concentration the whole time. The ability to do this kind of just ruins this fight for parsing (kind of like getting bitten on Blood Queen).
(6) Baleroc - Single tank it to keep Vengeance maxed.
(7) Ragnaros - Try to tank it most of the time in each phase. You can tank all of P3 if you need to for more Vengeance. Standing in Engulfings is a good way to get some Vengeance too if you don't have Burning Wound to keep it rolling. This is obnoxious for your healers though.
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Re: lol Prot DPS sets

Postby Treck » Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:46 pm

We dont change anything on the fights just if people wanna top the logs really.
We run 4 raids in 2 days (2x 7/7 hc), a 7/7 raid cant take more than 2hours, so wiping a few times takes to much time, people rather just play it safe and get on with their lives.
And we have about 10 alts in each 7/7, so couple a few alt healers and dps, and also the co-tank, straining the raid more just makes me feel bad.
I play it safe while still doing as much dps as i can, cuz theres no reason not to.
But tricks/DI? cmon play it fair.

Kihra wrote:(1) Shannox - Tank Shannox and just don't ever move. Trap Riplimb once midfight and your stacks will clear.
(2) Beth'tilac - Need to be tanking Beth the whole time to parse.
(3) Rhyolith - Need to tank the Sparks and the Fragments and have the minimum amount of add DPS on the fragments so they last nearly until the next set spawn, so you do the most DPS to them.
(4) Alysrazor - At this point you need to tank both birds (at least some of the time) to parse.
(5) Majordomo - Stupidest way to parse is to throw on ret gear and just DPS as prot. You don't get targeted by seeds, so you keep concentration the whole time. The ability to do this kind of just ruins this fight for parsing (kind of like getting bitten on Blood Queen).
(6) Baleroc - Single tank it to keep Vengeance maxed.
(7) Ragnaros - Try to tank it most of the time in each phase. You can tank all of P3 if you need to for more Vengeance. Standing in Engulfings is a good way to get some Vengeance too if you don't have Burning Wound to keep it rolling. This is obnoxious for your healers though.

1) We move Shannox a lot in the beginning, altho he dies so fast these days that even without ever resetting i only get 10stacks, also very bad at the optimisation of CD usage, as i focus on surviving a bit to much i think.
2) I atleast ask to jump up ^^
3) I really just dont give a crap about Rhyolith, its a booring fight anyway and the logs doesnt show anything one way or another.
4) Alysrazor is a bit like Rhyolith, atleast the fight is fun, but since dpsers deal damage to the hatchlings, you cant compete.
5) Majordomo, Atleast i tank there, unlike the top 5.
6) One or 2 tanks is a very small differance in difficulty if any these days, but 2 is still safer since were more used to it aswell.
7) Rag, we just play it safe as always, that means low vengeance uptime in p3 and p4 tbh, atleast i take scions so i get vengeance there, but p3 he hardly hits the tank tanking anyway, only way to keep vengeance stacked is by having the debuffs, but we still just swap anyway, and taking engulfing damage is pretty safe, but stressful for healers so never do that (stepping into lava once or twice during p1 i can do, but p1 is the joke phase)
Also p4 i cant even remember the last time i actually used CDs when he was rooted, always to busy resetting debuffs or running around.

Kihra wrote:Hi Treck! Hate you for beating my #1 H Rag parse! <3

Now, my post sounds like a lot more whine that it really is.
But i really dont like people not playing it fair, since honestly, it only ruins it for everyone (only the clueless people are impressed anyway)
Me not maximizing CD usage is completely on me, and honestly is a bullshit thing to even take up, i just felt like explaining a bit.
I also dont run pvp gloves, as i dont pvp, and i kinda cba BH, same thing there its only my own mistake.

I do like that there is some competition on it atleast, its good practice and good motivation to actually care about your dps rather than just afking out when you have sufficient threat.
Even tho i doubt much of that gear is going to be viable during progress in Dragonsoul, atleast rotation and CD usage should be second nature, something that i have to say, have been pretty damn poor from myself during progress before Ragnaros hc.

Also, out of interest, how much hit/exp are you running?
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Re: lol Prot DPS sets

Postby Kihra » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:02 pm

Treck wrote:I play it safe while still doing as much dps as i can, cuz theres no reason not to.
But tricks/DI? cmon play it fair.


Yeah, I agree. I avoid DI and Tricks when going for parses. I only escalate to Tricks/DI once it's already been done. The only fight this tier where I have a parse that is inflated by DI/Tricks is Shannox. Nobody is going to waste a DI on a tank on H Rag for example! LOL. :)

Treck wrote:1) We move Shannox a lot in the beginning, altho he dies so fast these days that even without ever resetting i only get 10stacks, also very bad at the optimisation of CD usage, as i focus on surviving a bit to much i think.


You really don't have to move him at all, especially if your co-tank traps Riplimb at any point. Even if he doesn't, you can survive just fine up to 9 stacks, etc., even in full threat gear.

Treck wrote:3) I really just dont give a crap about Rhyolith, its a booring fight anyway and the logs doesnt show anything one way or another.


Same. I have never even tried to parse on it. I hate the fight.

Treck wrote:4) Alysrazor is a bit like Rhyolith, atleast the fight is fun, but since dpsers deal damage to the hatchlings, you cant compete.


It does look like it might be fun to try tanking both birds. Seems pointlessly risky though. :)

Treck wrote:5) Majordomo, Atleast i tank there, unlike the top 5.


I actually had the #1 parse while tanking. I just beat it with one that was like 100 dps higher doing it the other way. I was mostly just comparing/curious how the same gear set would do. For me at least, they turned out to be roughly equivalent, so now I wish I hadn't beaten my actual tanking parse with the cheesy one. Oh well.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ip8v7 ... 607&e=3034 (Tanking parse)

Treck wrote:6) One or 2 tanks is a very small differance in difficulty if any these days, but 2 is still safer since were more used to it aswell.


Yeah, I've never tried to single tank Baleroc. You can do pretty well even with two tanks though. You lose a bit of Vengeance during Decimating, but it's not too bad.

Treck wrote:7) Rag, we just play it safe as always, that means low vengeance uptime in p3 and p4 tbh, atleast i take scions so i get vengeance there, but p3 he hardly hits the tank tanking anyway, only way to keep vengeance stacked is by having the debuffs, but we still just swap anyway, and taking engulfing damage is pretty safe, but stressful for healers so never do that (stepping into lava once or twice during p1 i can do, but p1 is the joke phase)
Also p4 i cant even remember the last time i actually used CDs when he was rooted, always to busy resetting debuffs or running around.


Yeah, same. I had lots of low Vengeance on my best Rag parse because we still did clean tank swaps, and then in P4 you're really not thinking about DPS at all. That phase has a high amount of RNG really, since it all depends on where all the breadth/roots spawns are. The parse I had that was really good the spawns were super favorable.

Treck wrote:Now, my post sounds like a lot more whine that it really is.
But i really dont like people not playing it fair, since honestly, it only ruins it for everyone (only the clueless people are impressed anyway)


I agree. I try to avoid extra Tricks or DI until the parses have been escalated to that point. Then I figure, "Might as well."

For me at least, it's just fun to try to do lots of DPS on fights. It's something to do when I'm bored after the tier is over. I'm not really comparing with other tankadins so much as just trying to do really well for myself.

Treck wrote:Also, out of interest, how much hit/exp are you running?


On fights like Ragnaros I think I had about 48 Expertise (so a bit shy of cap) and 8% hit. On Shannox and Domo and the easier fights I am fully capped.
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Re: lol Prot DPS sets

Postby Rhiannon » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:20 pm

Kihra wrote:Hi Treck! Hate you for beating my #1 H Rag parse! <3


Hi Kihra! Hate you for beating me #1 H Rag parse! Think it stood from our first kill until the nerfs hit though.

We've been trying for as fast kills as possible rather than personal rankings from last reset onwards, so unfortunately that means cutting as many healers as possible, which has led to me going back to CTC cap while they adjust, so I think it'll be a couple of resets until I get to push the rankings again.
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Re: lol Prot DPS sets

Postby Kihra » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:26 am

Rhiannon wrote:
Kihra wrote:Hi Treck! Hate you for beating my #1 H Rag parse! <3


Hi Kihra! Hate you for beating me #1 H Rag parse! Think it stood from our first kill until the nerfs hit though.

We've been trying for as fast kills as possible rather than personal rankings from last reset onwards, so unfortunately that means cutting as many healers as possible, which has led to me going back to CTC cap while they adjust, so I think it'll be a couple of resets until I get to push the rankings again.


Yeah, we brought in different healers, so I went back to full tank gear this week. I know how that is. :)
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Re: lol Prot DPS sets

Postby Sur-Pseudo » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:48 am

Hand of Sac. on the OT would allow some vengeance stacking wouldn't it?

I always did it on the OT just as a healer-help (since as MT we'll usually have 600k+ hp most of the fight and the sacrifices are nothing).. but might also allow for safer use of 2-tank Baleroc, as well as reducing the vengeance hit for ~2 decimation blades
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Re: lol Prot DPS sets

Postby exiledknight » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:57 am

T12 is a bit more fun than T11 was to prot dps, but unfortunately for me the fights where parsing could be fun without all out gimmicks I gave myself the other jobs long ago(Shannox and Beth). I still however managed 32nd on H Beth last night being the drone tank. Maybe this next lockout we will change things up on Shannox, I agree with Treck in that I hate Rhyolith, and to me tanking both birds on Aly is in the lines of major gimmick and risks wiping the raid which wastes time. I typically start slow as I switch my gear over and next week should be set for all but H Baleroc and of course H Rag(still progressing on him). Hoping for another conq hat token since all the MS finally have theirs, also got my prot 4 pc this week so should be able to go 2pc ret/2pc prot and pvp gloves.
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