All Things Mr. Robot!

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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Maklesh » Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:46 am

Just found out about MrRobot and looks really nice. I just used it for my tankadin and after reading all posts in this thread I understand most of it, I do have a few questions though! The link to my profile is Maklesh - Outland.


1- On my Mainhand (Mace of Acrid Death) it tells me to reforge mastery to dodge. Why is that? Shouldn't mastery always be better then dodge and parry after a certain percentage of the ratings?

2- On my ring (Theck's Emberseal) it tells me to reforge hit to parry. Same as above; wouldn't it be better to reforge it to mastery?

3- Does MrRobot keep 102.4% CTC in mind? As optimised gear it puts me below that %. I'm over full CTC now when raidbuffed so I understand I can dump a bit, but does MrRobot try to keep a character as close to the 102.4% as possible or not?

4a- I'm not sure I read Thecks post right, but does DR on both parry and dodge start at 5% since 4.2? Or is it at 3.9705% dodge and 5% parry?
4b- MrRobot is advising me to reforge dodge to parry on some pieces (or just unreforging some pieces) which leaves the Optimised dodge at 12.89% and parry at 15.06%. Regardless of the answer to question 4a shouldn't this be closer together?


Cheers for any answers you can give me!
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:23 am

Clicking "show stats", it seems to suggest it's calculating stats while raid buffed, so if you're over cap it's reforging out of it.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Maklesh » Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:34 am

Thats not what I asked though ;)

If MrRobot doesn't keep full CTC in mind, or the 1% dodge/parry difference then is there a reason for me to use it?

I realise that, if it doesn't keep those 2 in mind, it is still a great tool for tanks not as geared as myself (not boasting, I'm far from the greatest gear, just saying). If it doesn't though I don't see the use of it for myself.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:01 am

I'm not sure I understand the question, then, if my post doesn't answer 1, 2, and 3 of yours above. I'm saying that the fact it's reforging out of Mastery and uses raid buffed stats, since you say you're over the cap raid buffed, mean that it obviously does account for the cap and gear around it.

The stats list says you're at 102.82% before changing, and 102.29% after optimising. It appears to be aiming for as close as possible: you go from 0.42% over to 0.11% under.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Maklesh » Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:57 pm

You're right, point taken.

Though wouldn't it be better to keep the mastery and reforge more parry/dodge to stats like expertise or hit? Or perhaps change gemming to focus more on stamina? This question might not belong in this thread though; I know nothing of how these programs actually work and if it would even be possible to implement advise like I'm asking atm.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby fuzzygeek » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:19 pm

The program will max mastery to full CTC, then swap out mastery for pure avoidance. If it's smart, it will never recommend expertise or hit for a tank.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Digren » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:14 pm

Per Theck a few posts back, Mr. Robot recommends for MDR not CTC by default. Thus Maklesh, it won't always recommend the best CTC option because that's not what you've told it you want.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Weru » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:13 am

Just wondering if anyone had a Stat Weight setting that better works for CTC?
The changes to the weights now have me loosing 3% CTC and gemming dodge? I'm rather confused by that.

Also wondering if anyone has looked at a Stat Weight set for 5 man farming - with a bit more threat when running with DKs, Mages, and Rogues that kinda go nuts.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby econ21 » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:02 am

Weru wrote:Just wondering if anyone had a Stat Weight setting that better works for CTC?


Theck discussed that here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29732&start=300#p668732

Basically, make mastery 3 times as important as it is now.

Also wondering if anyone has looked at a Stat Weight set for 5 man farming - with a bit more threat when running with DKs, Mages, and Rogues that kinda go nuts.


I don't think it is worth trying to make a statistical weighting of threat vs survival. It's apples and oranges. I would just get hit and expertise capped (I only do it vs L85 mobs, so it is quite low cost). I use Licence to Slay instead of my stamina trinket for that. Yappo makes the point that MDR is better than CTC for 5 mans, but that's nothing to do with threat.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Maklesh » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:16 am

Thanks for the quick answers!

What about the 2.08% difference between dodge and parry when it optimises me? Shouldn't the percentages be closer together for DR minimisation?
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Koatanga » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:42 pm

Mr Robot is wrong about the drop locations for Moonwell Phial and Lylagar horn Ring.

It incorrectly lists them as quest rewards from Additional Armaments. The Phial comes from Filling the Moonwell. The trinket comes from Calling the Ancients.

Additional Armaments had no upgrades for me - a waste of 5 days' questing. Mr Robot gave me a sad.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Torias » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:29 pm

Digren wrote:Per Theck a few posts back, Mr. Robot recommends for MDR not CTC by default. Thus Maklesh, it won't always recommend the best CTC option because that's not what you've told it you want.


Mr. Robot now has a CTC Preset that you can switch to. :)
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:27 am

AWESOME!

I went on this today for the first time it was really helpful it helped me fix some reforging issues that I never even noticed. My shoulders were bugged and I never noticed it so it had me un-reforge them and I ended up getting quite a bit of avoidance.

There are still a few things where they are going to argue with you on BiS trinkets, but they also gave a few really good points too. Like I switched my 359 Engi helm to the 378 DPS one I got the other day.

Also I'm switching to mastery elixir and food and now am block capped. Was able to un-reforge my stay of execution so that is even more avoidance. It wants me to put in 20 parry 20 mastery gems, and even more mastery gems when I'm already block capped, but other than that awesome little tool.
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CTC and AskMrRobot

Postby Volitaire » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:16 pm

So I really have come to like AskMrRobot until I hit full CTC. The way I hit CTC was not all gear based as I am a big fan of Elixirs over flasks in most situations and thus I reforged to realize that I had put myself way over CTC. Anyone know a good way of handling this when it comes to reforging? It seems there isn't any option on AskMrRobot to account for this and well simply put I am lazy and don't want to have to do all the work/math myself lol. Thanks!
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Re: CTC and AskMrRobot

Postby Torias » Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:29 am

Mr. Robot is a bit black-boxed in that regard, no there is no way of telling it you are using mastery consumables over the "standard" ones.

Edit: Also there's a consolidated Mr. Robot thread in GD&A further down. :)
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Re: CTC and AskMrRobot

Postby Volitaire » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:36 am

I kinda was expecting that there wasn't going to be any out of the box solution to cover that :( Guess back to doing my own reforges from scratch :(
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Re: CTC and AskMrRobot

Postby Flex » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:47 am

http://www.chardev.org/ allows you to specify buffs and you can manually mess with reforging.
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Re: CTC and AskMrRobot

Postby Volitaire » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:53 am

Awesome. I haven't heard of them before so I will have to give that a try.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Yellowfive » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:11 pm

Hey maintankadin peoples!

I am looking at improving the way that Mr. Robot handles combat table coverage, particularly for protection paladins. I would like any feedback that you may have! At the moment, I plan to do the following:

- Provide a "CTC" option/checkbox for paladins (and probably warriors too). This "CTC mode" would turn on a few different behaviors:

1. Treat the total avoidance cap as an "at least" condition, rather than a constraint -- the idea is that "something good" happens when you pass that threshold: you are guaranteed to avoid any large hits.

2. Allow for different food and elixirs when trying to reach the avoidance cap, and indicate to the user which consumables were used in the final optimized result.

3. Don't consider temporary effects when shooting for the avoidance cap, such as a trinket on-use effect. The idea is to be capped for the common case, not just when a trinket proc is active.

4. Possibly make the total avoidance cap editable... apparently it is slightly different for particular fights. This would also give users the option to e.g. generate a custom set that caps out when a trinket proc is active, but otherwise is not capped. This feature is the lowest priority, as I think it is the least useful... but still potentially interesting.


Any comments, feedback, or other thoughts on how this CTC mode should operate? We would love some input from our users!
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby theckhd » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:34 am

1-3 make sense, 4 is probably not necessary as it's such a niche issue.

#1 is the most important. A lot of people want to plug their gear into Mr. Robot and have it tell them how to gem/reforge to maximize stamina (or avoidance, depending on stat weights) while maintaining block cap.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby econ21 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:58 am

Maybe it's a matter of language, but for paladins, CTC cap sounds more like a constraint than an "at least". Mastery is worthless to us after that point and getting more of it makes nothing good happen to us.

As theckhd says, I think well geared tanks will want to either maximise stamina or avoidance (or some weighted sum)subject to the constraint of not falling below 102.4%. I don't know if there is a way to programme it so that mastery above 102.4% has zero weight.

Less well geared tanks who can't hit the cap but who press the CTC option will probably want to push towards it as far as possible, but making some trade-off for stamina.

A CTC option for warriors would be nice, as they care about the cap about as much as we do these day. But for them mastery has a value beyond CTC cap as it reduces critical block, but presumably a lower value than mastery below the cap.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Torias » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:15 am

econ21 wrote:Maybe it's a matter of language, but for paladins, CTC cap sounds more like a constraint than an "at least". Mastery is worthless to us after that point and getting more of it makes nothing good happen to us.

As theckhd says, I think well geared tanks will want to either maximise stamina or avoidance (or some weighted sum)subject to the constraint of not falling below 102.4%. I don't know if there is a way to programme it so that mastery above 102.4% has zero weight.


What you're talking about is exactly what was described, a minimum or "at least" value rather than a constraint/cap. Consider for a moment exactly what you're saying: Maximise stamina/avoidance whilst maintaining at least 102.4%.

Alternatively, consider the opposite. If you don't include 102.4% as a minimum value, and instead impose it as a cap, an optimizing program is rarely actually going to meet it. Chances are it'll hit 102.1% or 102.2% and say "good enough", because at that point adding another mastery gem (for example) puts you .2% over cap which is wasted, whereas a stamina gem would give the full benefit. A pretty naive and simplistic example but illustrative, I hope.

To yellow, I'd agree with theck that 1-3 all sound like positive, welcome changes but that an editable CTC cap is unnecessary. It'd rarely abet any use and would probably end up just confusing someone. If you check out the Baleroc thread in AT&C (the only fight I can think of where the CTC cap changes), latest thinking is that capping on CTC may not be possible any way; and even if it were it's not necessarily optimal for the encounter.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Yellowfive » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:16 pm

Thanks for the feedback!

I have posted an update with a preliminary version of the new behavior. It is recommended that well-geared paladins use the default stat weights and check the "Prioritize CTC" option found in the lower-left. Lower-level paladins may wish to go to the Presets tab in the lower right and choose the "Low-Level CTC" weights, which give a very high weight to mastery and squeeze out a few more points of total avoidance.

After optimizing, if you click on the Show Stats button up by your score, you may see two extra lines in the stat display: "food" and "flask". These indicate any non-standard food or alchemy buffs that were used for the optimization, e.g. for paladins it will often say "Mastery". If you see nothing, then it is using the default feast/cauldron buffs (dodge food, stamina flask).


If you wish to go with a stamina-heavy setup after the avoidance cap is reached, play with the relative weights for stamina and dodge/parry -- it will probably work best to drop the weight on dodge/parry rather than raising the weight on stamina really high.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Torias » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:34 am

Just went to check it out. Currently with the default weights and Prioritize CTC selected it's sending me as high as 104.96%. A little bit of stat weight editing trying to get it to favour Stamina by reducing the weights on Dodge and Parry as you suggested Yellow actually caused it to increase to 105.15%. This is pretty much the same problem I had when you introduced the High CTC weight preset a while back.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby lythac » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:48 am

Another thing with "Prioritize CTC" is for rings it suggests +40str over +60sta. Of course +40str does CTC and Sta does not so it is right.

Maybe change it so "Prioritize CTC" ticked isn't the default, else all those Paladins under 102.4% may start thinking str>sta.
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