All Things Mr. Robot!

Get help with your character's gear

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Sabindeus, Aergis, lythac, Digren, majiben

Re: Mr. Robot's Gear Optimizer

Postby Blackbeared » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:15 am

lythac wrote:You can use it for warriors, and they have their own Stat Weights.

They seem to look OK when comparing between Paladins and Warriors.

Parry is slighyly higher than Dodge due to Hold the Line.
Warrior Mastery is lower than Paladin (not as good for you?). Doesn't matter anyway too much the optimiser says to gem for it anyway.

The only thing you need to change is the weighting of Stamina. If you set it to 50 it will suggest sta gemming/enchating, if set to 49 Avoidance/Mastery.


Ok well for Warriors mastery is quite the thing, cause it increases chance to block for normal attacks en critical blocks.

But do I need to change the Stat Weights by much if so, any good opinions on what to chance for the best :), I know this is not the best place to ask but Tankspot is down I think, and well this site helped me so far with Gear even.
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Re: askmrrobot

Postby Digren » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:01 pm

I haven't seen anything about it, which is why I keep bringing it up in the 4.2 PTR discussion whenever anyone says that we'll "block cap almost immediately in 4.2".

If there's a blue post about it I'd love a link.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Yellowfive » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:41 am

Hey all -- I am the main engineer over at askmrrobot.com.

You all are correct that we don't put a weight on the resistance effect of the Mirror, thus you have to manually lock that trinket in as BiS, and basically ignore the ranking of it. It is a unique proc that would be quite difficult to rank as the other trinkets are ranked.

A few updates ago, we made significant improvements to the way that we rank and model tanking trinkets. Firstly, we built a proc simulator to get accurate average up-times for trinket procs and use effects. Then, we (finally!) implemented code to properly apply diminishing returns to tanking procs, which give large chunks of avoidance all at once.

We are in the process of updating everything for 4.2. One change that we will be implementing at this time is some extra logic around the avoidance cap, which apparently will be much easier to reach... if there is no scaling introduced as blizzard hinted at before cataclysm. Up until now we have sort of ignored it because you can just barely reach it in current gear. We can't get away with being lazy anymore though ;)

If anyone has any feedback or a tanking "wish list" for changes/improvements to askmrrobot.com for 4.2, now is the time to tell us!
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby theckhd » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:09 pm

Yellow,

For the 4.2 updates you'll have to account for the changes to Holy Shield, which will alter the mastery/dodge/parry relationships once again. Now that the PTR has settle down and we're not likely to see any more changes, I'll be updating the Derivations thread with the updated formulas, but I probably won't get to it until this weekend. I'll drop you a line once it's done though.

If you need anything else from me, just holler. I'll try and check the mrrobot forums every day or so until the patch as well.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Yellowfive » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:12 pm

Theck -- I checked out your updated derivation thread, very helpful as always!

So I was working on the holy shield version of "20% increased block value for 10 sec, 30 sec CD", but I notice that the latest talent calculator on wowhead shows "10% increased block value for 10 sec, 20 sec CD".

Does anyone know which it will be when the patch goes live?


I have updated the thread that describes how Mr. Robot's weights are created based on the calculations from maintankadin -- I'll update it with the final logic depending on what they actually do with holy shield.

http://forums.askmrrobot.com/index.php? ... 4#msg14224


I also have the total avoidance cap code working, since it's pretty easy to get capped in tier 12 gear. So far it seems decent... need to test it and get some more feedback though.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby theckhd » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:16 pm

The PTR talent calculator is still showing the old 4.1 version of Holy Shield for me (10% block for 20s when using SotR/Inq). I haven't seen any statement about them changing the new design, so I assume that wowhead just hasn't updated the talent calculators on their PTR site?
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Mr robot / rawr

Postby Flomper » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:46 am

I have ran my toon through both programs and both r telling me different thinks . Not sure what one to use ? What do you guys use please . Also first post here so hi all. :D
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Re: Mr robot / rawr

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:01 am

I've never known Rawr to be particularly reliable when it comes to tank specs. Generally I only use it to gear my dps toons, and mostly just to balance hit/expertise caps.
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Re: Mr robot / rawr

Postby Calleana » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:49 am

Hi Flomper,

I use Mr. Robot as the wonderful Theckhd helped with the numbers. I haven't used Rawr so can't comment on that. For a discussion based on Mr. Robot please see this thread http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31743 which should answer most of your questions.

For talent specs, basic training and other gear discussions there are stickied threads on the other forums on here to help you out.
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Re: Mr robot / rawr

Postby theckhd » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:17 am

Moving this to the gear forum.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby econ21 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:24 am

A minor point on Mr Robot - the recommended talent build (from EJ) seems dated. Specifically, picking up all tier 1 talents seems a waste when there alternatives like rule of law. Eternal glory probably should be the one to go, as the 20 second ICD limits it's value.

This would change the recommended tankadin talent spec into something more like Theckhd's "WoG" build:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZGMhcRkdRRucbG

as explained in his guide to talents:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29589
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Re: Mr robot / rawr

Postby Digren » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:21 am

FYI, merging this with the "All Things Mr. Robot" thread.

As of now Mr. Robot is known to be good, and Rawr isn't, so use Mr. Robot.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Malthrax » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:24 am

econ21 wrote:A minor point on Mr Robot - the recommended talent build (from EJ) seems dated. Specifically, picking up all tier 1 talents seems a waste when there alternatives like rule of law. Eternal glory probably should be the one to go, as the 20 second ICD limits it's value.

This would change the recommended tankadin talent spec into something more like Theckhd's "WoG" build:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZGMhcRkdRRucbG

as explained in his guide to talents:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29589


EJ's tanking data for all four tanks has always been dated. EJ does a better job as a DPS-maximizing site, in my experience.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Yellowfive » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:48 pm

Thanks for the feedback on our default spec for prot -- we'll take a look at yours and theck's recommendations and update our site as appropriate (and list this as a source).

The last couple updates should be much improved for all classes -- item info should be more consistent now that we have switched to the armory instead of wowhead, though we still need to update drop locations and item categorization a bit.

I have also made a few tweaks and bug fixes to the total avoidance calculations, particularly in the presence of avoidance procs from trinkets. You probably won't notice much (if any) change, but it might affect a few particular cases.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Dane » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:32 am

OK, I'm quite liking this tool, but I've got a ret question for it.

My character pane shows me with a 0.00% chance to miss...so, why does it keep recommending I reforge for hit?!?

Case in point...last night, I upgrade from the ZG gloves to T11. Prior to reforging, I'm at 0.00% miss chance, and I figure I might get to reforge haste into a more "exciting" stat (I DO like the big numbers crit provides...)

However, Mr. Robot told me to go Haste to Hit...why would this be?
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Maklesh » Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:46 am

Just found out about MrRobot and looks really nice. I just used it for my tankadin and after reading all posts in this thread I understand most of it, I do have a few questions though! The link to my profile is Maklesh - Outland.


1- On my Mainhand (Mace of Acrid Death) it tells me to reforge mastery to dodge. Why is that? Shouldn't mastery always be better then dodge and parry after a certain percentage of the ratings?

2- On my ring (Theck's Emberseal) it tells me to reforge hit to parry. Same as above; wouldn't it be better to reforge it to mastery?

3- Does MrRobot keep 102.4% CTC in mind? As optimised gear it puts me below that %. I'm over full CTC now when raidbuffed so I understand I can dump a bit, but does MrRobot try to keep a character as close to the 102.4% as possible or not?

4a- I'm not sure I read Thecks post right, but does DR on both parry and dodge start at 5% since 4.2? Or is it at 3.9705% dodge and 5% parry?
4b- MrRobot is advising me to reforge dodge to parry on some pieces (or just unreforging some pieces) which leaves the Optimised dodge at 12.89% and parry at 15.06%. Regardless of the answer to question 4a shouldn't this be closer together?


Cheers for any answers you can give me!
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:23 am

Clicking "show stats", it seems to suggest it's calculating stats while raid buffed, so if you're over cap it's reforging out of it.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Maklesh » Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:34 am

Thats not what I asked though ;)

If MrRobot doesn't keep full CTC in mind, or the 1% dodge/parry difference then is there a reason for me to use it?

I realise that, if it doesn't keep those 2 in mind, it is still a great tool for tanks not as geared as myself (not boasting, I'm far from the greatest gear, just saying). If it doesn't though I don't see the use of it for myself.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:01 am

I'm not sure I understand the question, then, if my post doesn't answer 1, 2, and 3 of yours above. I'm saying that the fact it's reforging out of Mastery and uses raid buffed stats, since you say you're over the cap raid buffed, mean that it obviously does account for the cap and gear around it.

The stats list says you're at 102.82% before changing, and 102.29% after optimising. It appears to be aiming for as close as possible: you go from 0.42% over to 0.11% under.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Maklesh » Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:57 pm

You're right, point taken.

Though wouldn't it be better to keep the mastery and reforge more parry/dodge to stats like expertise or hit? Or perhaps change gemming to focus more on stamina? This question might not belong in this thread though; I know nothing of how these programs actually work and if it would even be possible to implement advise like I'm asking atm.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby fuzzygeek » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:19 pm

The program will max mastery to full CTC, then swap out mastery for pure avoidance. If it's smart, it will never recommend expertise or hit for a tank.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Digren » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:14 pm

Per Theck a few posts back, Mr. Robot recommends for MDR not CTC by default. Thus Maklesh, it won't always recommend the best CTC option because that's not what you've told it you want.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Weru » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:13 am

Just wondering if anyone had a Stat Weight setting that better works for CTC?
The changes to the weights now have me loosing 3% CTC and gemming dodge? I'm rather confused by that.

Also wondering if anyone has looked at a Stat Weight set for 5 man farming - with a bit more threat when running with DKs, Mages, and Rogues that kinda go nuts.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby econ21 » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:02 am

Weru wrote:Just wondering if anyone had a Stat Weight setting that better works for CTC?


Theck discussed that here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29732&start=300#p668732

Basically, make mastery 3 times as important as it is now.

Also wondering if anyone has looked at a Stat Weight set for 5 man farming - with a bit more threat when running with DKs, Mages, and Rogues that kinda go nuts.


I don't think it is worth trying to make a statistical weighting of threat vs survival. It's apples and oranges. I would just get hit and expertise capped (I only do it vs L85 mobs, so it is quite low cost). I use Licence to Slay instead of my stamina trinket for that. Yappo makes the point that MDR is better than CTC for 5 mans, but that's nothing to do with threat.
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Re: All Things Mr. Robot!

Postby Maklesh » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:16 am

Thanks for the quick answers!

What about the 2.08% difference between dodge and parry when it optimises me? Shouldn't the percentages be closer together for DR minimisation?
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