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So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby BlackNet » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:27 am

Few things worth noting here with my setup.

Use insight 100% of the time.
Have judgment early in the cycle.
Cleanse during combat to via decurses.
Help with healing during combat as well via the 5-6 things we have, typically rank around 15-25% of the healing done.
I have only ran low on mana a handful of times so far.
Many pug groups tell me I must tank with truth as it generates more threat, my motto and what I am teaching other tanks is if you must resort to a seal to keep threat them you seriously need to look at your gear and rotations! hammer/shield is your main threat generation ability now. With that combo you can do uber some serious business and never lay down a single consecration circle regardless of the mob size.

With the cata changes to the mana setup we are a blessing if used properly. Toss in a ret paly and have them use RSA (raeli's spell announcer) to broadcast when the party beneficial spells are in place, trust me your healers will LOVE you for it as they seem to be getting higher crits when your abilities are in place than when they are not.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:35 am

You tanks tanking heroics with Seal of Insight up 100% of the time... I'd really like to know just how much dps your dpsers are doing. Because frankly, Seal of Insight, from what I've noticed, can't handle 17k dps mages firing right off the pull without any tricks or MD.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Njall » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:40 am

Nikachelle wrote:You tanks tanking heroics with Seal of Insight up 100% of the time... I'd really like to know just how much dps your dpsers are doing. Because frankly, Seal of Insight, from what I've noticed, can't handle 17k dps mages firing right off the pull without any tricks or MD.


Yeah, most heroics you're probably looking at 10K or so DPS. Most folks just aren't as high end as the ones you run with. :) That said, I usually swap out the SoT for SoI once I've established a comfortable threat lead.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:43 am

Njall wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:You tanks tanking heroics with Seal of Insight up 100% of the time... I'd really like to know just how much dps your dpsers are doing. Because frankly, Seal of Insight, from what I've noticed, can't handle 17k dps mages firing right off the pull without any tricks or MD.


Yeah, most heroics you're probably looking at 10K or so DPS. Most folks just aren't as high end as the ones you run with. :) That said, I usually swap out the SoT for SoI once I've established a comfortable threat lead.

They're 17-19k dps on the pull with all their nasty cds up, but they'll drop to 12-14k overall, with some spiking around 15k.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Njall » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:45 am

Nikachelle wrote:
They're 17-19k dps on the pull with all their nasty cds up, but they'll drop to 12-14k overall, with some spiking around 15k.


Well, after the front-end loading is over, you can probably switch over to SoI if you are so inclined. Or you can tell your DPS to stop being dickish.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby BlackNet » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:46 am

A friend of mine has a dk which pulls a good 25k at times, I have seen him pull 35k on trash. I have ran with many high dps people and so far not had a problem with it.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/arygos/blacknet/simple

I have no doubt that if a dps out geared my threat generation or seriously out geared me then we would have some serious problems to deal with.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:47 am

I do, frequently.

However, there's still people saying you can tank perfectly fine with Insight 100% of the time as if they never lose aggro. Frankly, I don't believe them.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:50 am

BlackNet wrote:A friend of mine has a dk which pulls a good 25k at times, I have seen him pull 35k on trash. I have ran with many high dps people and so far not had a problem with it.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/arygos/blacknet/simple

I have no doubt that if a dps out geared my threat generation or seriously out geared me then we would have some serious problems to deal with.

Says the guy wearing a threat trinket and a threat neck and a threat weapon and a threat enchant and a threat belt and threat rings and has threat gems (expertise/hit) AND reforged for a buttload of hit.

Yeah okay dude.
Last edited by Nikachelle on Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Njall » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:51 am

That's threatening.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby BlackNet » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:27 am

Yup, I have been playing around with the hit cap recently, currently it's at 7.5 and am trying to reach 8 with common items. I also just left a very fail guild where the dps would commonly go down durring fights and do some insane stupid stuff, i.e. took 23.5 minutes to fight the Altairus the wind boss in heroic vortex, was just the healer and me going at it. Sad sad day so after that I said ok pump up the dps and mastery. From various readings here I have came to the conclusion to stock up on as much armor and mastery as possible then shoot for hit to 8%, expertise to 25, strength. Overall it's not a bad threat set I have there.

From what we have found with the dps DK he can pull off every single tank he as seen except me and just about every tank I see and hear about is still using the stamina is king mentality.

Besides it's quite fun and enjoyable blitzing through stuff and the dps not have to hold back.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:46 am

Which is fine, for a threat set. Except that what you're doing isn't considered "normal". So people start go "WTF is so wrong with me that I can't hold aggro off someone who's doing 25k dps and yet this other guy can."
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Malthrax » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:47 am

Carbonite wrote:5 Mans, Heroics and just questing... pull 1-2 mobs and mana is empty...


Questing & Solo you should only ever be using Seal of Insight, and do not Consecrate - just do the "normal" prot tanking rotation and you will never EVER run out of mana.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Njall » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:50 am

Say, anyone want to buy some of my delicious mana pots? Very cheap!
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Malthrax » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:50 am

Njall wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:
They're 17-19k dps on the pull with all their nasty cds up, but they'll drop to 12-14k overall, with some spiking around 15k.


Well, after the front-end loading is over, you can probably switch over to SoI if you are so inclined. Or you can tell your DPS to stop being dickish.


Seal of Truth isn't going to help if you have a 20k mage blowing cooldowns on the pull. The Censure ticks are nice, but they're not THAT great, and they take a good 12-15 seconds to get rolling.

I'm with Njall, tell your DPS to quit strokin' their meter-peens, or let 'em eat a few dirt naps.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:54 am

Oh I let them die if I'm too busy rounding up mobs. It grates on me, but I don't care if I'm losing threat on stuff like that. They know they go a bit nuts sometimes.

My whole point was that using seal of insight 100% of the time is just plain stupid. You can't run a comfortable dungeon using seal of insight without losing a great deal of the mobs to begin with (unless you go apeshit and gear for every threat stat I suppose, like the guy above). And really, no one wants to languish in a heroic. I'd rather the dps were able to dps right away rather than waiting for the tank to get EVEN MORE threat up on their targets just because the tank is using SoI.
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