So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Doxa » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:25 am

I also forgot to mention that you can try pulling more than 1-2 mobs at a time. This will allow for more mana regen from BoSanctuary procs in the same time period for better mana regen.

Finally, mana regen at lower gear levels just isn't as good as with better gear from the nature of BoSanctuary as well.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Bladesong » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:29 pm

Personally when I open on a boss, if positioning isn't absolutely volatile from the start I DP for 3 holy power, open up with 2-3 exorcisms (each is 25% of my bar), then shield, then judge, then SotR when he gets to me


:shock: I have no idea how to squeeze in multiple exorcisms, AS and Judge before the boss gets to me. I want your secret.

@OP: For questing and heroics, you could stack Mastery to help get back mana through your Sanctuary talent (get 3% of your max mana after a block or dodge). There's a reforging guide on this site to help with what stats should be reforged and mastery trinkets are fairly easy to come by, even if the proc or on-use isn't ideal for tanking.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Brute » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:37 am

If I judge on CD I don't have mana issues, even using mana-hog abilities.

That's one thing I don't like about the "refresh AS" talent because there are very few places I can put it in my rotation. 2/3 of the spaces between HotR/CS are already spoken for by ShotR/Inquisition/WoG and Judgement. Maybe I should be modifying my rotation to let those procs in more?

Also, why are you questing as prot? My DPS as ret is significantly higher and it's more fun to play. But to each his own.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Tuttle » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:57 pm

Nikachelle wrote:You tanks tanking heroics with Seal of Insight up 100% of the time... I'd really like to know just how much dps your dpsers are doing. Because frankly, Seal of Insight, from what I've noticed, can't handle 17k dps mages firing right off the pull without any tricks or MD.


I PUG most of the time for heroics and rarely see more than 10-12k dps, and have no problem with threat with SoI up 100% of the time. For the first time, today, I ran SFK (in 15 minutes!) with a DK that was pulling 18-20k dps on some fights and had some issues on pack pulls, but it was pretty minor: when the DK grabbed something I have two taunts I can use to get it back, and when I did I'd just single target it for a few seconds and maybe hit it with a ShoR to guarantee threat if I was close to 3 HoPo.

18kdps seems like a lot to me, maybe it won't be in the future, and maybe in the future I'll think about using WoG less and using SoT, but for now there's no reason not to use them.

Mind you, I'm also at 22 expertise w/o SoT, which undoubtedly helps, but I think being able to stay aware and taunt when necessary will cover any potential loss of threat at my level.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:47 pm

Tuttle wrote:I ran SFK (in 15 minutes!)

I call absolute bullshit on that. Post a log. And it better be heroic.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Invisusira » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:51 pm

Tuttle wrote:SoI up 100% of the time

Tuttle wrote:SFK (in 15 minutes!)

Tuttle wrote:DK that was pulling 18-20k dps
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Vort » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:30 pm

15 seems a bit over the top for SFK. I've done a 23 minute Lost City but that was after a raid and we still had flasks and food buffs so we went in for daily heroic and stomped it chain pulling, even I was pulling 15k dps on trash!
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Tuttle » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:56 pm

Nikachelle wrote:
Tuttle wrote:I ran SFK (in 15 minutes!)

I call absolute bullshit on that. Post a log. And it better be heroic.


I don't have logs since it was an LFD group and I don't bother to log them. You can walk away skeptical if you want. What I know is that I used SoI at the start of the dungeon, which went much, much, much better than I'd expected I still had 16m left on SoI which I'd never refreshed.

I went through recount because I couldn't believe it either, and I was seeing everyone but the healer at at least 10k dps (excluding me; I pulled about 7k overall). I only stopped to mark and we didn't bother with CC since we basically didn't have any and my healer was amazing. The only times we slowed down were waiting for that damned worgen to show up and open the doors.

BUT! Regardless of the time it took, the DK was pulling significant DPS (in my eyes, at least) and I rarely had aggro problems. When I did, I taunted. It's just not a huge issue, I'd guess, for most people, to run with SoI all the time and compensate for loss of aggro with taunts -- hell, you have to do that anyway.

My feeling is that with two 8s, no-CGD taunts you have plenty to deal with the occasional loose MOB as long as you're not being significantly outgeared by your DPS. Perhaps an added factor is that I chain-pulled like crazy since my heals were so good, so I almost always had HoPo and vengance to grab aggro.

Anyway, I almost always run w/ SoI in LFD (and, even, in guild groups) because DPS isn't high enough to worry my threat if I make a decent start (and even if I don't, I can taunt and work on threat a bit) and healers have enough problems with mana that it makes a big difference.

I will add that I don't often start WoGing at the beginning (although I have), but once I'm a couple ShoRs in, I never have a problem. With big trash packs I will do an Inquisition as long as my health is good, but when it's not I never hesitate to hit a CD and start using WoG. It's shocking how little threat matters to me, but I won't be raiding until Sunday. When I do I may adjust my opinions, but my guess is that when I hit BWD it's not going to be my threat or survivability that kills the raid.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Tuttle » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:58 pm

Vort wrote:15 seems a bit over the top for SFK. I've done a 23 minute Lost City but that was after a raid and we still had flasks and food buffs so we went in for daily heroic and stomped it chain pulling, even I was pulling 15k dps on trash!


I've had fast Tol'Vir runs, but this SFK run was ridiculous. It almost felt like WotLK.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Earantur » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:00 am

Brute wrote:Also, why are you questing as prot? My DPS as ret is significantly higher and it's more fun to play. But to each his own.

Speaking only for myself, I quest as prot because I'm holy/prot dual specced. I'd guess that's the most likely reason for it.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Bashe » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:01 am

Tuttle wrote:
Vort wrote:15 seems a bit over the top for SFK. I've done a 23 minute Lost City but that was after a raid and we still had flasks and food buffs so we went in for daily heroic and stomped it chain pulling, even I was pulling 15k dps on trash!


I've had fast Tol'Vir runs, but this SFK run was ridiculous. It almost felt like WotLK.


I was curious so ran SFK normal (!!), not killing trash, not looting and with max run speed (PoJ) and it STILL took 5 minutes 45s.

I still had 16m left on SoI which I'd never refreshed
You're not even claiming 15 minutes, you're claming 14 minutes. So the difference between going through the instance at a flat run and your HC run would be 8 minutes. Come on now; you probably died at some point and rebuffed, or accidentally buffed yourself, seal-swapped or something.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:14 am

Tuttle wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:
Tuttle wrote:I ran SFK (in 15 minutes!)

I call absolute bullshit on that. Post a log. And it better be heroic.


I don't have logs since it was an LFD group and I don't bother to log them. You can walk away skeptical if you want. What I know is that I used SoI at the start of the dungeon, which went much, much, much better than I'd expected I still had 16m left on SoI which I'd never refreshed.

I went through recount because I couldn't believe it either, and I was seeing everyone but the healer at at least 10k dps (excluding me; I pulled about 7k overall). I only stopped to mark and we didn't bother with CC since we basically didn't have any and my healer was amazing. The only times we slowed down were waiting for that damned worgen to show up and open the doors.

No seriously, your run doesn't add up. 7k dps from a tank? That's normal. 10k dps from actual dps? That's normal. None of that equates to a 15 minute SFK heroic run. There is too much trash for that to actually work through that quickly. I'm at the point where I'd actually like to add up all the mob health in there, factor in the wait times for the worgen (which would slow you down at least a total of 4 minutes) and then divide it by all the dps you had in order to reach a reasonable amount of time for you to have finished the dungeon.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Njall » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:25 am

Shenanigans.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby Brute » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:34 pm

Earantur wrote:
Brute wrote:Also, why are you questing as prot? My DPS as ret is significantly higher and it's more fun to play. But to each his own.

Speaking only for myself, I quest as prot because I'm holy/prot dual specced. I'd guess that's the most likely reason for it.

lol, dur, that must be it. Holy spec is dead to me so i didn't even think of it.
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Re: So Thirsty! Wheres My Mana Going!?

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:08 pm

Nikachelle wrote:I'm at the point where I'd actually like to add up all the mob health in there, factor in the wait times for the worgen (which would slow you down at least a total of 4 minutes) and then divide it by all the dps you had in order to reach a reasonable amount of time for you to have finished the dungeon.


Wait for the worgen?

I know I've done some awfully fast SFK runs skipping the optional bosses and triggering the lore during combat so we don't have to sit around and wait for doors to open.
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