New PvP Gear Viable? (Specifics in thread)

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New PvP Gear Viable? (Specifics in thread)

Postby Donahu » Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:37 pm

So I'm at the same spot as a lot of others around here and figured I'd check around a bit. We're just getting into the raiding scene for Cataclysm now that our healadin has caught up in level and I'm doing *everything* I can to min/max myself for less stress on everyone else in the raid. I too have noticed the whole deal with threat not being an issue and having seen that reforged all hit/exp to mastery and reforged dodge/parry to mastery where relevant for me. I have a quick question about gearing up options in regards to PvP gear though.

With relatively no effort (and I mean none) you can cap out on your Conquest points each week with so much ease that I don't know what blizzard was thinking. That brings into play ilvl 365 epics.

Specifically -

Vicious Gladiator's Scaled Shoulders

vs. "farmable" drops

Earthshape Pauldrons
Raz's Pauldrons
Pauldrons of the High Requiem
Sunburnt Pauldrons

Now, I don't know about everyone else but relying on a BoE epic drop or killing Cho'Gall and Nefarian enough to get my shoulders/tier token does not seem like a very good option so I went ahead and bought the PvP shoulders. Are they better than the alternatives currently available?

While we're on the subject, how do the gloves stack up against PvE options? (Assuming they just happened to drop in Tol Barad for me the first week...)

Vicious Gladiator's Scaled Gauntlets

vs. "farmable" drops

Fingers of Light
Gloves of the Greymane Wall
Numbing Handguards

Any input either way would be appreciated. Thanks :).
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Re: New PvP Gear Viable? (Specifics in thread)

Postby yappo » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:55 am

I just gave your section above a quick look.

My first impression is that you'll give your healer a heart-attack before he/she goes OOM if you pick the PvP-gear.


An extra 20k health (and I'm being VERY generous here) means you die in five hits instead of four (or something along these lines). However, long before this happens you're watching a health-bar that slowly degrades due to healer inability to cope with your damage-input.

Mastery and avoidance (in this order) seems to be king until we reach the aggregated level where we can state that an unlucky string of unmitigated hits is unlikely enough an occurence that it's no longer important to avoid it. My personal guess is that this happens somewhere at the 85% mark (Theck will have to do the graphics). Basically I'm saying that 0.15 X 0.15 X 0.15 is a number low enough to be disregarded for any one fight (three hits in a row).

Tank death is an attrition-race. For me this translate into avoiding / mitigating damage in the first place. Ie, RNG is the way to go. Padding stamina only prolonges an unavoidable tank-down.

I'm not raiding, so if there are encounters that two-shots a tank (L2P issues aside) then all my arguments go out the window, obviously, but I've been given reasons to believe this is not the case.
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Re: New PvP Gear Viable? (Specifics in thread)

Postby Donahu » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:44 am

Ahh, I was aware of the entire mitigation being king debate but I know there is the other side of the coin still thinking that more stamina equals a higher vengeance cap equals a higher AP meaning higher WoG's, etc. I don't want to bring the whole mitigation vs stamina debate into here though so was just looking at the shoulders from a pure tank point of view.

The epic ones have -

+ 150 armor
+ 65 stamina
+ 23-87 strength depending on the shoulders
+ 179 expertise (the pure mit shoulders highest stat is 130, the others are low 100's cept vendor ones, but secondary stat is hit so allows a bigger reforge to mastery)

The tank ones all have a secondary threat stat (hit or exp) except for the one set that has 130 dodge/mastery.

Also, I am currently at 75% overall mitigation (un-buffed) so maybe I'm getting close enough that the stamina might become more valued anyways. Haven't seen a thread about that yet, thanks for the idea. Now to find someone here to crunch the numbers! :)

Any thoughts/opinions after the item comparisons? :D. Thanks again!
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Re: New PvP Gear Viable? (Specifics in thread)

Postby yappo » Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:05 pm

Everything else aside, I believe threat stats are currently moot. If I hit anything it stays glued to me, and you don't even want to have nightmares about my abominable hit/expertize stats :D

The PvP-items doesn't loot THAT lackluster when compared to tank-items lacking mastery. After all some 130 dodge-rating will give you very little extra survivability, and the extra stamina might come in handy for certain.

I am, however, very unsure I'd trade 150:ish mastery for some extra 50 stamina. My healer will never notice the 600 difference in health to begin with, but in the order of 1.5% extra block-chance is noticable.

When you start dragging in the difference between 300+ stamina trinkets and 300+ mastery trinkets, well, then I'm not entirely positive my penchant for mastery can be trusted. However, if the comparision is X stamina versus 3X mastery, then mastery ought to win hands down until we hit the aggregated cap (102.4).

In the end I'd get both sets of items, but, hey, we're tankadins. We should ALWAYS have all sets of items to match gear for the specific fight we're headed into. After all, when that boss starts waving magic wands at me, then I can take all my mastery and leave through the back door :D
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Re: New PvP Gear Viable? (Specifics in thread)

Postby Dem » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:53 am

On a related note, I bought the pvp lvl 352 bracers and belt for my alt pally tank after hitting 85. I had spare honor points, but not justice points or sufficient faction rep to get those items.

The resilience can't be reforged, but the stats are good enough anyway to survive heroics until something drops or rep/JP are enough for proper tanking gear.
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Re: New PvP Gear Viable? (Specifics in thread)

Postby DexterBelgium » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:46 am

I just made the obvious comparison: blue Honour shoulders vs blue JP shoulders (as it seems to me this is the stage at which one would be contemplating this). I included blue gems (matching bonuses), no enchants as they will be equal. ... .0.0.52210

You have to take into account reforging tho, and (assuming reforging the threat stat to mastery) that leaves me with this:
The JP ones offer MORE:
+215 Dodge
+20 Parry
+111 Hit => reforge to mastery= 44 mastery and 67 hit
Offer LESS (ignoring tiny armor difference and resilience):
- 20 Sta
- 67 Str
- 20 Mastery (from gem)
- 138 Expertise (17.95) reforged to 55 mastery and 83 expertise

final tally:
215 dodge, 20 parry, 67 hit for 31 mastery, 20 sta, 67 str and 83 exp in choosing pvp blues over pve blues.

I think, in the end: you take a hit that is substantial, but not overly so. And if that frees up badges for another piece that's a bigger upgrade, this might be a path worth taking. Be prepared to be boooed and Playerscore'd tho...
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