So many trinkets!

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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby inthedrops » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:14 pm

Avoidance: Avoiding damage (dodge, parry, miss)
Mitigation: Reducing damage (armor, block)

I don't know where these new definitions are coming from again and why.

Edit: In fact, I just got done saying in another thread that I didn't think there were many people confusing this. But apparently either I'm not up with the times, or I was wrong. The post a few earlier explains why people keep saying they have "85% avoidance". I knew what they meant but never felt like making a fuss over it. Now I'm fussy :)
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Awyndel » Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:22 am

I think you're refering to EH. Block becomes EH when you are block capped.

That's not always going to help you with NEH ( new EH ) though because it doesn't block magic damage.

It is going to be VERY usefull in non-EH ( cata ) though because of the mitigation and because it wins in short term DTPS AND total damage taken.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby StarQ » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:35 pm

Regarding to the trinket question. I'm standing in front of hellscreams reach quartermaster and thinking of buying
Mirror of Broken Images.

Actually i have
Symbiotic Worm
Porcelain Crab

and on my bank
Figurine - Earthen Guardian

I want to replace the Crab with the new one. Don't want to lose the +stamina and +mastery below 35% HP. What do you mind?
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby pfunkmort » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:28 am

I think to go back to the avoidance issue in cataclysm (delete this if this is just extending a belabored conversation)...ciderhelm had a forum thread on the main forums long ago about the nature of stacking avoidance and armor - the conclusion was basically the more you have of a stat, the more advantageous it is to stack more of the stat (this was disregarding DR and talking about percentages)...like...if I have 70% avoidance, and I add 1%, I'm reducing 1/30th of the damage, whereas at 30% avoidance, I'm reducing only 1/70th of the incoming damage. And on and on.

I think my personal read on it was that without bringing you substantively closer to some form of block cap, or allowing you to take an extra hit consistently, the high dr on avoidance devalues say...3% dodge in a world where you're sitting at 35% avoidance. There's just very little real world benefit of going from 35% to 38% avoidance. It's the lack of consistency vs eh and stam trinkets which are more predictable. Maybe on a pack of mobs if mastery weren't so cheap to stack or there were some terrible ms effect.

[edit] - after looking into it a little more, the porcelain crab, which was one of the avoidance trinkets being talked about, has some effectiveness as a mitigation trinket, if you reforge to mastery. The proc gives ~21% block, so if you WERE going to ditch out on stam trinkets it wouldn't be terrible.
Last edited by pfunkmort on Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Shathus » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:46 am

Lanthorr wrote:
inthedrops wrote:Has this whole avoidance/mitigation defintion come up again? I thought this was resolved 5 years ago. Why is it being brought up again? Did I miss a memo somewhere?


Avoidance - has a chance to reduce damage

Mitigation - ALWAYS reduces damage

Once you are block capped call block mitigation until then it is avoidance.


Others have sort of said it, but again

Block capped or not, block is always mitigation. At 102.4% it's just GUARANTEED mitigation, instead of a chance at it and someone said, and can be counted as Effective Health as you'll never take a 100% hit.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Awyndel » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:00 am

Personally I am thinking of balancing gems/enchants, and then swapping trinkets based on the situation:

Slow death or heavy physical:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=56280
http://www.wowhead.com/item=56449

Spike death or heavy magical:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=56347
http://www.wowhead.com/item=52352

This is preraiding gear ofc.
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Re: Tol Barad exalted rep options...

Postby hrbngr » Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:27 pm

I'm wondering what peoples thoughts are on the Tol Barad exalted rep trinket options?

http://www.wowhead.com/item=62469 vs http://www.wowhead.com/item=62468

For the Strength trink there is the AP increase plus Parry for avoidance. The Agility on the 2nd trinket would be a Dodge increase.

Per Digren's thread: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =viewtopic

1605 Str * .25(conversion rate) = 401.25 Parry
1605 Agi * .75(conversion rate) = 1203.75 Dodge

Seems to me that that Unsolvable Riddle (2mins CD) would be an excellent avoidance trinket option along w the 321 static mastery boost.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Loras » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:50 pm

Bump! I'm also pretty interested in that trinket choice. If I compare the agi-on-use and the str-on-use, I get lots of threat and some avoidance, or some threat and lots of avoidance. But I am also pretty tempted by the resistance one. Thing is, I haven't set foot in raids yet, and I don't know how useful it'll be. The agi-on-use one will be a great all-around trinket, but not sure if there are enough situations to justify buying the resistance-on-use one.

Also, I don't know, maybe Rating Buster is wrong. But 1600 agi was around 4% dodge for my values. My belt with 170 dodge was giving 0.80% dodge, so that means 850 dodge for 4% dodge. Ok but if agility gives 75% the value of dodge rating, these numbers are way off, as it makes them more like 50% the value of dodge, not 75%.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:25 pm

A pally healer laughed at me for wearing agility trinkets in a heroic. He did not know agility gives us dodge, but nonetheless, it made me think - am I doing it right? I have:

Tia's grace: 285 mastery and attacks give 34 agility, stacking up to 10 times.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=56394

Unsolvable riddle: 321 mastery and 1605 agility on use for 20s (2m CD)
http://www.wowhead.com/item=62468

Not that I have a lot of other avoidance trinkets to choose from - I've only run each heroic once or twice, and none have dropped. I have not crunched the numbers, but Tia's grace in particular seems awesome - it nearly always seems to be stacked up to 10, giving me 340 agility.

EDIT: forgot about unsolvable riddle being on use - that makes it much better than I thought. Memo to self - don't post at 4am.
Last edited by econ21 on Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Loras » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:36 am

Riddle is not a random proc, but a completely controllable one. In this regard, the other trinket is more random as the stacks can fall off. And the Riddle gives 40-ish additional passive mastery.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:55 am

Thanks, Loras. That pally healer's scorn still smarts, so I have done some back of the envelope calculations. This is assuming agility gives 0.6094 dodge rating and factoring in diminishing returns given my rough level of gear.

I calculate that:

Tia's grace (333 level version) gives me 3.2% block and about 0.9% dodge (assuming 10 stacks are up).

Unsolvable riddle gives me 4% block and about 4.5% dodge on use.

These seem quite large effects, given that I calculate geming my 13 gem slots towards mastery/mixed mastery rather than stamina/mixed stamina would give me around 5% more block chance.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Thelmiance » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:32 am

There's some calculations for trinkets on my spreadsheet. As suggested, Tia's Grace is quite a good tanking trinket. I've got it as the third-best heroic trinket, behind Throngus's Finger and Porcelain Crab.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:18 am

Those are interesting calculations Thelmiance, thanks. Comparing Tia's Grace with the top two trinkets on your list, your ranking is based on their expected damage reduction, which is also what I've been using a yardstick to compare mastery and avoidance. Given that their expected damage reductions are rather close, I'm inclined to prefer Tia's Grace, as it may smooth out damage more. This is partly because the constant effect is mastery rather than avoidance, and partly because Tia's Grace seems to sustain 10 stacks constantly whereas the procs for the top two trinkets on your list only give brief bursts of avoidance.

I guess reforging some of the constant avoidance of the top two trinkets to mastery would push them further into the lead by your yardstick, although perhaps not so much that I would prefer them.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Thelmiance » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:08 am

It's also worth considering that Tia's gives a (quite) small amount of a dps boost, too. That's not worth a lot, but it's something. I think it's definitely a very solid trinket.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Redleg » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:24 pm

StarQ wrote:Regarding to the trinket question. I'm standing in front of hellscreams reach quartermaster and thinking of buying
Mirror of Broken Images.

Actually i have
Symbiotic Worm
Porcelain Crab

and on my bank
Figurine - Earthen Guardian

I want to replace the Crab with the new one. Don't want to lose the +stamina and +mastery below 35% HP. What do you mind?


I just picked up a Mirror of Broken Images and the on-use seems very good. It stacks with kings/motw and resistance aura/totem. So with kings + resistance aura + on-use, you are looking at 595 frost/fire/shadow resistance, and 497 arcane/nature resistance.

The character sheet resistance tooltip shows 595 resistance to be an average reduction of 50.32%, and 497 is 45.83%.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:41 pm

Redleg wrote:I just picked up a Mirror of Broken Images and the on-use seems very good.


I agree this looks very nice. I picked up the agility on use TB trinket, but am now going to grind commendations for this one. My problem with the "on use" aspect is knowing which fights to use it on. Which Cata bosses would it be good for? (i.e. which ones do bursts of damage it could be used to resist?)
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Jaitee » Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:21 pm

Redleg wrote:
StarQ wrote:Regarding to the trinket question. I'm standing in front of hellscreams reach quartermaster and thinking of buying
Mirror of Broken Images.

Actually i have
Symbiotic Worm
Porcelain Crab

and on my bank
Figurine - Earthen Guardian

I want to replace the Crab with the new one. Don't want to lose the +stamina and +mastery below 35% HP. What do you mind?


I just picked up a Mirror of Broken Images and the on-use seems very good. It stacks with kings/motw and resistance aura/totem. So with kings + resistance aura + on-use, you are looking at 595 frost/fire/shadow resistance, and 497 arcane/nature resistance.

The character sheet resistance tooltip shows 595 resistance to be an average reduction of 50.32%, and 497 is 45.83%.



the resistance part of the character sheet shows the reduction against a same level mob it drops significantly against a mob +3 levels from memory resistance aura gives about 25% reduction against a same level mob and drops to around half that against a raid boss...assuming that its about the same reduction at higher resistances its probably a 25% reduction...nothing to sneeze at especially considering that the things you would save it for ie dragon breaths are generally soem of the hardest hitting boss abilities
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Ventris » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:36 am

I dunno if anyone's posted it but even though its an ilvl 318 trink, I've found tremendous use of this little one here.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=63742/zabroks-lucky-tooth

with a substantial amount of stam as well as over 1000 mastery on use, I've worked it into my cooldown rotation and had a lot of luck on it last night in our guild's first attempts at council of the four winds.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby fuzzygeek » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:51 am

econ21 wrote:Which Cata bosses would it be good for? (i.e. which ones do bursts of damage it could be used to resist?)


Ascendant Council comes to mind. As do the Throne fights. Also Twin Dragons. Also Robot Council.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Loras » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:29 pm

Godly for Nefarian too.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Bashe » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:53 am

In cataclysm I've taken to gearing heavily towards mastery (my combat table coverage when I'm in raid buffs approaches 90% I believe, but hard to double-check right now for the exact number), I'm sure I'm not the only one who does this. This also includes all but ignoring stamina trinkets. I'm sure that if someone lets loose some math they could find a hole in my logic, but my thinking is that stacking stamina fails to account to the new healing situation where healers are constantly flirting OOM if they're healing 'big'.

My healthbar is currently big enough that almost nothing kills me too fast to be healed (barring mechanics fail) but sometimes damage comes in too rapidly over a period of time for healers to keep up without going out of mana. This is what I gear for (ie mastery, armor) and I'd equip a stamina trinket only if there's a really good one-use or proc.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Awyndel » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:13 am

I'm changing my mastery trinkets. Like most I am picking up http://www.wowhead.com/item=62466 .

I am also going to test how reliable http://www.wowhead.com/item=56394/tias-grace is, and how fast it stacks.

Those would both be great trinkets when we start getting closer to the block cap.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:30 am

Awyndel wrote:I am also going to test how reliable http://www.wowhead.com/item=56394/tias-grace is, and how fast it stacks.


In my experience, 100% reliable and stacks really fast. Everytime I look, it is 10 stacks. I love it.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Gamingdevil » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:21 am

econ21 wrote:
Awyndel wrote:I am also going to test how reliable http://www.wowhead.com/item=56394/tias-grace is, and how fast it stacks.


In my experience, 100% reliable and stacks really fast. Everytime I look, it is 10 stacks. I love it.


Agreed, it's amazing. The agility provides about 0.80% dodge
If it is weak, kill it before it gets stronger. If it is strong, weaken it.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Awyndel » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:50 am

Gamingdevil wrote:
econ21 wrote:
Awyndel wrote:I am also going to test how reliable http://www.wowhead.com/item=56394/tias-grace is, and how fast it stacks.


In my experience, 100% reliable and stacks really fast. Everytime I look, it is 10 stacks. I love it.


Agreed, it's amazing. The agility provides about 0.80% dodge


Oh. My. God.

This thing better drop soon for me!!!
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