Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby econ21 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:26 am

Just a note on Therazane reputation: you can hit revered from just questing and one day's dailies. I just did it at (low) L83. It's probably worth completing the Therazane quests just to "finish" the Deepholm story and get the Riftrent waraxe as a reward. It does not delay going to Uldum significantly: if you go to Deepholm immediately at L82, you will only be a couple of bars into L83 by the time you are done.

I agree getting to exalted is not a priority, but getting to revered for the ring (and questing weapon) is probably worth it.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby hrbngr » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:46 pm

econ21,

can you elaborate on the therazane rep? I started in mt hyjal and am now revered/guardians of hyjal, I next started in Vash'jir and noticed i was getting NO earthan ring reputation, so i stopped and moved on to Deepholme (what a miner's paradise btw!) I am currently in Deepholme getting earthan ring rep..and I am guessing from what you said that I will be getting Therazane rep at some point, right?
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby seigert » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:00 am

hrbngr wrote:I next started in Vash'jir and noticed i was getting NO earthan ring reputation, so i stopped and moved on to Deepholme


You can get about of 4k of Earthen Ring reputation in Vash'ir, quests with it start in a second subzone.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Barathorn » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:07 am

seigert wrote:
hrbngr wrote:I next started in Vash'jir and noticed i was getting NO earthan ring reputation, so i stopped and moved on to Deepholme


You can get about of 4k of Earthen Ring reputation in Vash'ir, quests with it start in a second subzone.


Don't forget this was hotfixed as per the post in the General forum as some quests were not giving the correct rep reward. No plans for this to be retroactively applied as of yet so you will need to grind the rep out.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby econ21 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:13 am

hrbngr wrote:can you elaborate on the therazane rep?


It comes naturally in the later quests in Deepholm. It starts off with the Earthen Ring being attacked by Therazane, so they send you to try to win the favour of the big uglies. I enjoyed the Therazane quests and they do get you to revered with only one day of dailies required. Haven't bothered grinding past that yet though - better to move on to Uldum imo. I try to quest in the highest level area that will offer quests - more challenge and nicer loot. But I made an exception in Deepholm when I realised how close to revered with Therazane I was getting. I'll probably also loiter in Uldum, for cat people rep. You need 9m XP to get from level 84-85, so levelling in two zones sounds reasonable.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:26 am

econ21 wrote:Just a note on Therazane reputation: you can hit revered from just questing and one day's dailies.

Hmm. I did the full quest chain, and I've done 3 days of dailies, and I'm still at 11185/12000 Honored.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Njall » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:34 am

econ21 wrote: I'll probably also loiter in Uldum, for cat people rep.


I can understand that.

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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby econ21 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:36 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Hmm. I did the full quest chain, and I've done 3 days of dailies, and I'm still at 11185/12000 Honored.


That's odd. I wonder if the discrepancy is because my main is human and so benefits from 10% extra reputation?
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Flex » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:27 am

KysenMurrin wrote:
econ21 wrote:Just a note on Therazane reputation: you can hit revered from just questing and one day's dailies.

Hmm. I did the full quest chain, and I've done 3 days of dailies, and I'm still at 11185/12000 Honored.


I hit 10K/12K from the primary quests and had to knock out one day of dailies to hit Revered. I'm guessing human 10% rep racial is the big player here.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby hrbngr » Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:37 pm

econ21,
I've been tempted to stay in deephholme or at least go back and do the dailies as well. I've been trying to find Terborus for the sweet tank wrist that he drops: http://www.wowhead.com/item=67238

I am now also close to revered with Therazane and have been contemplating which tabard to initially wear in roics based on Vexryn's recommendations.

Since there are so few options for boot upgrades, I'll be going for Wildhammer rep for the head reward at revered and boots at exalted first--along with the dailies mentioned here http://www.wowhead.com/faction=1174#comments. Next, back to Guardians of Hyjal for the exalted tanking back since there are no dailies to help get me to exalted--currently at revered from completing Mt Hyjal quests. I'm already earthan ring revered--needed for the head enchant--so next would be Therazane for the Exalted shoulder enchant, and finally finishing up with Ramkahen for the revered ring and exalted wrist.

My overall philosophy is to try and make a mastery set per Theckd's list and then a threat set w/full hit and lots of expertise. I am also trying to match gear where possible to the same basic stats as our tier gear. For example, for the shoulder slot: T11= http://www.wowhead.com/?item=60358(dodge/hit) so my focus is to get http://www.wowhead.com/?item=58104 (dodge/hit). That way when/if i get the tier piece it slots in nicely with the rest of my gear
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Re: Vexryn's Pre-Raid Gear Progression

Postby theckhd » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:20 am

Just a nitpick:

vexryn wrote:Your only other epic wrist option drops from the Bastion of Twilight, and again given the itemization in Strength, I'd prefer the Ramkahen's Sandguard Bracers over the Bracers of Impossible Strength anyway. The Dragonmaw/Wildhammer Exalted Boots of the Sullen Rock / Gryphon Rider's Boots option is nice, which I'll grant is worth considering given the prospective Valor Point grind for Rock Furrow Boots.


I disagree with you here. Mastery is a very powerful stat for us, to the point that I'm prioritizing mastery gear very heavily. A parry/mastery item like Bracers of Impossible Strength is a stronger choice for survivability than the Sandguard Bracers, which wastes a good chunk of its itemization on expertise. Reforging can make up some of the difference, but you're still quite a bit behind. Example, using all pre-DR values (items with high avoidance fare even worse due to DR, so this is really a "best-case scenario" for items like Sandguard Bracers):
Sandguard: 190 dodge: 1.0752% avoid from parry + 0.1924% from STR, 1.2676% total attack table coverage
Sandguard with dodge->mastery reforge: 0.6451%+0.1924% avoid, 0.9538% block, 1.7913% total attack table coverage
Sandguard with exp->mastery reforge: 1.0752%+0.1924% avoid, 0.5572% block, 1.8248% total attack table coverage
Bracers of Impossible Strength: 0.7187%+0.2688% avoid, 1.5939% block, 2.5813% total attack table coverage

Similarly, Gryphon-Riders (3.4475% coverage with mast/stam gem) is pretty much a best-in-slot piece because of its favorable mastery itemization. Again, by reforging the expertise into Mastery you can get the Rock Furrow Boots up to 2.3239%, but that's still significantly behind.

A few notes:
  • The wowhead tooltips are wrong. It's pretty clear that they're still using the level 80 parry/dodge conversion factor. This is trivially checked; Rock Furrow has 223 rating, which should be about 1.26% dodge using the level 85 conversion factor of 176.7. The tooltip claims 3.42%, which corresponds to 65.2 rating per %.
  • You can come up with a general rule of thumb for reforging on items that have an avoidance/threat combination. If an item has A avoidance rating and T threat rating, the break-even point is found by solving (0.6*A/Ca + 0.4*A/Cm)=A/Ca+0.4*T/Cm, where Ca and Cm are the avoidance and mastery conversion factors respectively (Ca=176.7189 for avoidance, Cm=179.28/2.25=79.68 for mastery).

    Solving that equation, we find that T = (1-Cm/Ca)*A = 0.5491*A. In other words, as long as the threat stat on the item is larger than 55% of the avoidance rating, you'll get better attack table coverage by reforging the threat stat. This assumes, of course, that you're willing to sacrifice the threat stats.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:27 am

Theck,
Thanks for your response about this.

In point of fact, I've come to a very similar conclusion as I've been gearing up and tanking this week. Mastery gear is at the top of my list; gear is "two survival stats" (i.e., some combination of dodge/parry/mastery) is priority over anything with hit or expertise, even if it has "extra" strength itemization.

I'm going to be doing a lot of updates to the guide this week, now that I'm settling down from my insane initial grind for the week (I did so many heroics, by the end of the first lockout I think I'll be exalted with three different factions, and revered with the rest!).

Also need to update some of the comments about rep grinds in light of what you get from questing, and given how hard you can and will want to grind heroics for rep, I'm realizing that I clearly need to revamp my valor point recommendations in the light of the timing of when you'll get exalted rep epics versus valor point gear.

And we're already heading into raids, and I'm seeing now that Blizzard basically put our "starter epics" on early raid bosses as well. Halfus (1st boss in Bastion) drops the bracers that compete with the rep ones (although I agree with you, I like the raid drop itemization more); Orbitron in Blackwing Descent drops a belt nearly identical to the Blacksmith crafted one, and Magmaw (which seems much harder than the preceding two) drops tank boots that are very comparable to the rep option.

Also have more clarity about what world drops are available as epics, and will incorporate that into the guide as well now that we see what's available.

Lots of positive updates coming soon!
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Fapman » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:29 am

I see you don't mention the engineering trinket? Elementium Dragonling

Any reason for this, or just missed it?
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Kihra » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:07 am

My experience so far after doing a bit of raiding is that Hit/Expertise gear isn't going to be particularly relevant for this tier. Our threat lead is so gigantic that there's simply no reason to worry about threat stats.

Some examples:

Chestplate of the Steadfast is superior to the 359 crafted Blacksmith chest despite the former being ilvl 346.

The Twilight Dragonscale Cloak (also ilvl 346) is another example. It outshines 359 pieces.

Right now I'm basically comparing items purely on the basis of survivability, since even with low Hit and Expertise values, I'm so far ahead on threat I can just switch to Seal of Insight and Word of Glory tank after the initial threat lead is established.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby TravlnCub » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:32 am

Great guide so far, really appreciate you putting it together.

I have a request for an additional section on reforging. Either links to something existing discussing it, or general guidelines for what to reforge to what. Theck's post above was a little beyond me, but the conclusion on reforging a threat stat if its 55% of the avoidance rating is a nugget I can use.

Lootrank is recommending reforging mastery into dodge for almost all pieces, which doesn't sound right to me at all. So a brief section discussing / linking to 85 caps with reforging in mind would be helpful.

Again, great work and I look forward to the updates.
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edit: And of course I post before reading the rest of the stickys. Maybe just a link to the Item Enhancement Guide would cover all of this.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Bashe » Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:42 am

Really awesome work

would just like to point out that the engineer's Quickflip Deflection Plates can in fact be applied alongside another enchant.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:41 am

Lots of new updates added. All discovered epic World drops. All raid drop locations added. Cross-reference list now includes stand-alone lists for gear sorted by raid, and a separate list for all BoE gear you might find on the AH, from blues to epic world drops to raid BoE epics! :)
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:50 am

Bashe wrote:Really awesome work

would just like to point out that the engineer's Quickflip Deflection Plates can in fact be applied alongside another enchant.



Thanks for letting me know. Fixed in the enchant list! :)
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby econ21 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:16 am

Very nice work - you might add in the Tol Barad rep weapon, the only 346 weapon that is not a drop, and put in health warning about the BS chest - it is inferior to the JP one:

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... 15#p633193
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:28 am

econ21 wrote:Very nice work - you might add in the Tol Barad rep weapon, the only 346 weapon that is not a drop, and put in health warning about the BS chest - it is inferior to the JP one:

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... 15#p633193



As for the Tol Barad weapon, I presume you mean Ravening Slicer? I haven't actually put any Agi 1H weapons on the list yet. I do think there have been some interesting points made about the options for an Agi weapon, but I'll probably aim to give these agi weapons a separate place on the list.

As for the BS chest versus the JP one... I'm actually getting ready to do a fairly substantive rewrite to the guide now that I've gone through the gear-up process myself, and see the stats on items in much more detail (as well as experiencing how unnecessary it is to gear for threat now, even less important than the reduced credit I was already giving it!). The updated guide will shift emphasis on which epics you push for early, including notably the JP versus crafted chest, as well as things like the crafted belt versus the Omnotron drop in BWD.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Rhiannon » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:47 pm

Signet of the Elder Council, with the haste reforged to something more useful, is a superior survival option to most (all?) of the 346 rings due to the higher avoidance afforded by agility.

The random enchant 359 1h sword will drop from Al'Akir normal.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby superphil89 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:59 pm

Hello, first must say brilliant post and has helped me a lot.

One thing I need to ask is what I should be trying to stack on my gear (dodge, parry mastery, hit, expertise). And what are the cap limits?

For example for fury warrior it is usually noted to gear in Hit(till 8%) > Expertise(till 26) > Strength > Hit(till 27%)> Haste(till rage gain is consistent)> Crit > Mastery > Haste.

At the moment I have 13.08 dodge, 12.19 parry, 3 expertise, 11.07 mastery and 6.39 hit..

What would you suggest that I start off trying to cap first as a tank (reforge, gemming etc)

Thanks for any feedback
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby hrbngr » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:25 pm

superphil,

there are other posts you can research here, but for me, im prioritizing master>parry>dodge, hit~5% so that u have dont miss on L85 trash mobs, and stacks of vengeance will help w/L87+bosses for threat. there are currently no diminishing returns on mastery, so that is why it is my #1 stat, then--per theck--have ur parry at about 1% higher than ur dodge stat--reforge as necessary. my toon is human so i get 3 expertise for wielding a sword as well as 3 more for the Ramkahen revered ring and 10 w/seal of truth for 16, i would go no higher here. For heroics, like the 1st three pulls in stonecore, u still wont have enough avoidance to face pull the mobs and live unless u have good CC--esp on the earthshapers!
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby kakashi » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:29 am

The Hardest hitting boss atm in my experience is Halfus Heroic (Drakes in particular). Smacking us for anything between 50k-70k unblocked. Mastery is pretty awesome there however aiming for 150k hp might be a bit low. I've gemmed entirely for Mastery but with two Stamina trinkets and am usually the last tank alive when wiping.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby xstrykr » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:30 pm

Vexryn,
Great guide. I wanted to help by updating you with the missing gems from your list:

Subtle Chimera's Eye - 67 dodge, bought with Illustrious Jewelcrafter's Token
Bold Chimera's Eye - 67 strength, bought with Illustrious Jewelcrafter's Token
Etched Nightstone - 15 str/15 hit, learned from trainer

I'm guessing you got your gem info from the beta cata site, which I think didn't have all of the designs cached. Hope this helps!
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