Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Chasey » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:23 am

Very well done. I love the way you set this up and I have lots to read to start putting mats away for the crafted.

Thank you!
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:29 am

KysenMurrin wrote:3 blue, which you have incorrectly listed as Therazane:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=62355

2) I believe you'll be at Honored with Therazane by the time you complete the quest chain in Deepholm for the faction, which you'll likely do to reach 83 so you can move to Uldum.



Oops, fixing the Earthen Ring legs, thanks.

And good point about the Therazane rep. I didn't have access to Beta, so I wasn't certain how much rep is reasonable.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby hopterque » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:42 pm

If you have a problem take it to PM's please, the list is valid and well constructed. If all you want to do is knock someones hard work this isn't the place for that.

If you want to continue this discussion you can PM me.

Barathorn.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby tbolt » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:58 pm

Vexryn has compiled a very handy list of gear that is useful to all of us as we plan for Cata. Listing where/how tanking items are obtained is providing factual information which I thank him for since I neither have access to the beta nor the time to sit down and look all of this up by myself. If you think that the subjective part of his post where he gives advice on which gear path to take is incorrect, you could provide alternatives without trying to depreciate his efforts.
I wouldn't care if he only plays a shaman, much less what he gems in his tanking gear since it's pretty irrelevant to which faction gives me tanking boots. Thanks Vex for all the hard work.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:09 pm

tbolt wrote: Thanks Vex for all the hard work.



/salute
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Brightsong » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:23 pm

Heya Vexryn,

This thread is A++ awesome. A query though - will we need to purchase enchants for pre-heroics blues in order to survive them? I'm not really looking forward to the expense of having to enchant my stuff three times over. :X
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:28 pm

Brightsong wrote:Heya Vexryn,

This thread is A++ awesome. A query though - will we need to purchase enchants for pre-heroics blues in order to survive them? I'm not really looking forward to the expense of having to enchant my stuff three times over. :X



Brightsong,
Not really clear at this point, and I can't say I had much of any experience on Beta with this.

I'm working on the enchant list right now and hope to have something up in the next 24 hours or so.

I would expect that you will need to enchant your gear. The sheer magnitude of the enchants - even the basic ones - really add up tremendously.

That being said, I believe that, as with Wrath, there are "basic" and "high end" versions of most enchants. You'll likely want to do the basic version on blue gear, where you get "most" of the value but don't pay a lot extra for that last little bit.

Depending on where heroics and early raids are tuned, though, you may decide even the high end enchants are worth it. We'll know a lot more in 2 weeks. :)
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Barathorn » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:16 am

I have deleted and amended several posts because it is frankly stupid to be having an argument about soon to be old content in what is a very useful and current thread. I don't care what people get up to in the rest of the forum, the gear forum is looked at by a huge amount of people and I won't have people bickering in this forum so if you have a problem with someone you take it to PM's.

I hope that is crystal clear for everyone.

Carry on the good work in this thread.

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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Icecole » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:57 am

Great thread vex! /wave
Thanks for all of the hard work!

And go me for helping a little bit :D
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:12 am

Icecole wrote:Great thread vex! /wave
Thanks for all of the hard work!

And go me for helping a little bit :D


Indeed Icecole, thanks for the heads-up on a few mis-matched links and such.

I think I've gotten the list almost entirely "cleaned up" of little typos and errors that inevitably come when capturing this much information, but if anyone finds anything else missing/erroneous/etc., please let me know! I want this to be as accurate and thorough as possible!
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Eredor » Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:52 pm

I wasn't a beta tester so I'll let other proof-read the lists.

Looks like a great solid guide.

Thanks for the work.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Abuna » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:57 pm

Ok..guess I screwed up the other post, so will try again. Excellent job on the list, and as I was not a beta tester either, have a question. Is the stam buff from mining going to remain competative with JC or is it time to change....

Thanks in Advance!
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Abuna » Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:26 pm

OK.. think I found it myself.. on Tankspot, duh! Mining is gonna give 120 Stam at 525, so prob not worth the time and expense to change.. already have 2 other toons with JC, so access to gems not a big issue.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:58 pm

Abuna wrote:OK.. think I found it myself.. on Tankspot, duh! Mining is gonna give 120 Stam at 525, so prob not worth the time and expense to change.. already have 2 other toons with JC, so access to gems not a big issue.


Indeed, I don't see any significant min/maxxing reason to change from Mining to JC for tank purposes, assuming you're happy with a reasonable chunk of stamina. :)

Mining will provide +120 stamina, and 3 Solid Chimera's Eyes will provide +101 Stamina each, upgrading Solid Ocean Sapphires that would have been +60 Stamina each; the net result is 3 x +41 stamina = +123 Stamina from Jewelcrafting.

I'll grant the JCs have a little more flexibility in gemming choices at least, and the JC trinket is a useful starter option. But I don't think that is an "overwhelming" reason to change to Jewelcrafting, but merely a 'decent' one.

That aside, I think I'm going to try to put a Profession summary list somewhere in the guide as well, as I'm seeing these questions come up a lot. Thanks for the "suggestion". :)

/salute
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:26 pm

Now updated to include Professions too! :)
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby balloonknot » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:13 am

Vexryn wrote:
Abuna wrote:OK.. think I found it myself.. on Tankspot, duh! Mining is gonna give 120 Stam at 525, so prob not worth the time and expense to change.. already have 2 other toons with JC, so access to gems not a big issue.


Indeed, I don't see any significant min/maxxing reason to change from Mining to JC for tank purposes, assuming you're happy with a reasonable chunk of stamina. :)

Mining will provide +120 stamina, and 3 Solid Chimera's Eyes will provide +101 Stamina each, upgrading Solid Ocean Sapphires that would have been +60 Stamina each; the net result is 3 x +41 stamina = +123 Stamina from Jewelcrafting.

I'll grant the JCs have a little more flexibility in gemming choices at least, and the JC trinket is a useful starter option. But I don't think that is an "overwhelming" reason to change to Jewelcrafting, but merely a 'decent' one.

That aside, I think I'm going to try to put a Profession summary list somewhere in the guide as well, as I'm seeing these questions come up a lot. Thanks for the "suggestion". :)

/salute


If the wraith formula holds the difference will increase when epic gems enter, of course this is a gamble, we don't really know but throughout WoW, production professions have an edge over gathering and min-maxing means, well, maxing, so i would continue to assume that this is true.

Additionally on the flexibility. i will venture a guess (and just a guess) that it may be more worthwhile to choose your gemming. I mean the health difference between a tank and a dps/healter is not that large compared to wraith on beta which would(perhaps) imply that avoidance/mitigation should be much more important.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:34 am

balloonknot wrote:
If the wraith formula holds the difference will increase when epic gems enter, of course this is a gamble, we don't really know but throughout WoW, production professions have an edge over gathering and min-maxing means, well, maxing, so i would continue to assume that this is true.

Additionally on the flexibility. i will venture a guess (and just a guess) that it may be more worthwhile to choose your gemming. I mean the health difference between a tank and a dps/healter is not that large compared to wraith on beta which would(perhaps) imply that avoidance/mitigation should be much more important.



Indeed, I would expect that when epic gems enter the picture (patch 4.1? Or 4.2?) that the buffs from professions will have to be rebalanced. Hopefully(?) that will be applied in a relatively even manner, although of course we'll see what happens.

I'd agree that flexibility is nice though. Arguably from that perspective, your top two profession choices would be Blacksmithing and Jewelcrafting, which allow not only the current +120 Stamina "buff" for the profession, but allow you to choose different gems if you prefer.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby HammU » Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:25 am

First of all, outstanding work!

However, going through the gear plan in my head and checking some things on wowhead, i realised that the crafted blacksmithing pieces require "Chaos Orbs" to craft them. And since those appearently are BoP it would become very difficult (or expensive) to find a blacksmith with enough orbs and the willingness to use them at a payable price, in an early phase of the expansion.

Therefore I think the crafted pieces may be very difficult to get. For exmaple, the crafted chestpiece already needs 3 Chaos Orbs i.e. you have to "pay" the blacksmith for 3 heroic runs, not even considered his luck on roles.

After that you still have to factor in the Truegold Bars, which have to be transmuted by alchymists, 1 per day and you need 6 of those just for the chestpiece.

So crafting all 3 pieces is going to be insanely expensive early on.

Or am I missing something?
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:27 am

HammU,
Thanks for the feedback on this.

Indeed, the Truegold bars are created by Alchemists via a transmute (and presumably, eligible for transmutation specialization procs), but while I expect these will be expensive early on, I would anticipate it will be more like Titansteel Bars were early in Wrath (which likewise were a core for much crafted gear and were only created by miners on a 20-hour cooldown). The demand was huge, though, and a LOT of people were selling them; even early on, the going rate for our Titansteel Bar daily cooldown was about 50g, which is high but not crazy. Although I admit I hadn't looked in detail at the mats for the Transmute: Truegold and the mats themselves won't be cheap - 10 Fire, 10 Air, and 10 Water, of what appears to be the Cataclysm equivalent of Eternals. 30 "Eternals" for gear will have a good sized price tag!

Perhaps of more concern, though, is your point about the Chaos Orbs. Yes, Chaos Orbs are the new Frozen Orbs (so you get one for the group to roll on at the end of an instance), but I have to admit I did not see that they are BoP! That certainly changes the dynamic! I'll be curious to see how these go, though; they are only used by crafting professions, but does that mean anyone can need on them, even a Skinner/Miner who couldn't use them without a drastic profession change? I don't know. It does mean, though, that the Blacksmith pieces will be a lot harder to get, especially if Blacksmithing isn't your own profession as a tank.

I've got a few other updates I want/need to do to the prioritization discussion as well, but this definitely merits some alterations. Thanks for pointing this out!
Last edited by vexryn on Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby econ21 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:33 am

This is an awesome gear list, thanks!

Have you looked at the PVP gear? My understanding is that Arena/Rated BGs will give access to epic weapons and shields without a personal rating. If so, we may be going back to the BC era world where the easiest path to getting an epic weapon is PVP.

Certainly the PVP weapons and shields you can get pre-Cata are now competitive with almost all PvE gear. With weapons in particular, a slow high i-level dps weapon is very attractive to tankadins and PvP ones usually don't waste much on resilience. (With shields, the case is weaker but still strong.)
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:46 am

econ21 wrote:This is an awesome gear list, thanks!

Have you looked at the PVP gear? My understanding is that Arena/Rated BGs will give access to epic weapons and shields without a personal rating. If so, we may be going back to the BC era world where the easiest path to getting an epic weapon is PVP.

Certainly the PVP weapons and shields you can get pre-Cata are now competitive with almost all PvE gear. With weapons in particular, a slow high i-level dps weapon is very attractive to tankadins and PvP ones usually don't waste much on resilience. (With shields, the case is weaker but still strong.)



I had not looked at the PvP gear, although I'll grant that if the formula turns out to look more like TBC than Wrath, the PvP gear may be relevant. Given the heavier focus on survival, though - it's not all about EH anymore - I'm not sure PvP gear with no points in mitigation will be appealing. But we'll see; some gear with a huge chunk of stamina and some mastery may pass for tank gear, and a PvP weapon with slow swing speed and epic-quality base damage may still be a pretty solid threat option.

I'll start poking around the PvP list, once I update the gear priority discussion per HammU's comments about the difficulty of obtaining Chaos Orbs. If I see something that really seems relevant, I'll look at adding it to the list.

On the other hand, there's no indication that PvP gear will be as easy to obtain as it was in TBC, even if the epics are of useful quality. In other words, we need to see how the points can be accumulated; otherwise, the reality may be "PvP epics are decent, but if you want to gear up for PvE, that time is still better spent grinding 5-man dungeons than doing PvP content for honor/conquest points."

Thanks for the suggestion though!
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby balloonknot » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:19 pm

I think you'd be giving up a lot to use most of the pvp gear. Since uncritable is no longer an issue the resilience is a complete waste, thats a lot of wasted stats on the pvp gear.

There may be certain encounters (magic heavy) or particular slots (weapons?) it may make sense for but i think i would have to be looked at very much on a case my case basis.
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:52 pm

balloonknot wrote:I think you'd be giving up a lot to use most of the pvp gear. Since uncritable is no longer an issue the resilience is a complete waste, thats a lot of wasted stats on the pvp gear.

There may be certain encounters (magic heavy) or particular slots (weapons?) it may make sense for but i think i would have to be looked at very much on a case my case basis.



Indeed, that's my gut response as well, but I'll poke around at stats a little and take a look. I suspect the pvp gear will look very inferior to other i359 epics... but if it turns out the comparison is i359 pvp epics versus i333 or i346 blues, it might be more interesting...
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby Kandoril » Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:06 am

Vexryn, just want to say thank you ever so much for all your hard work. This list is a great place for any tank worth his/her salt to start. You've done a wonderful job of explaining everything we need to know to get a 'jumpstart' in the upcoming expansion.

Having been a tank for 4yrs now (Kandoril, realm of Cairne, Guild: Midnight Sun) I am quite impressed with all you've done here. :D In fact, this posting is all I am going to study for the next few weeks. It's quite comprehensive. Again, I salute you and hardily handshake your hand for a job well done. Thank you!

Questions, comments, or concerns relating to WoW tanking or this post, email me here: cinciknight@gmail.com :wink:
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Re: Vexryn's Cataclysm Master Tank Gear List & Gear Progression

Postby vexryn » Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:02 am

Kandoril wrote:Vexryn, just want to say thank you ever so much for all your hard work. This list is a great place for any tank worth his/her salt to start. You've done a wonderful job of explaining everything we need to know to get a 'jumpstart' in the upcoming expansion.

Having been a tank for 4yrs now (Kandoril, realm of Cairne, Guild: Midnight Sun) I am quite impressed with all you've done here. :D In fact, this posting is all I am going to study for the next few weeks. It's quite comprehensive. Again, I salute you and hardily handshake your hand for a job well done. Thank you!

Questions, comments, or concerns relating to WoW tanking or this post, email me here: cinciknight@gmail.com :wink:



/salute

Thanks for the kind words!

I've been getting some great discussion here in the thread and via direct messages, though. Some updates to the guide and priority list discussion are coming! :)

Hopefully it will just be getting better! :)
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