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Strength versus Agility

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Strength versus Agility

Postby Maelsstrom » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:49 pm

I've come to a conclusion and want to check it with the community here.

Agility contributes dodge at a rate of 0.54 points of dodge rating per point of Agility. (per EJ's combat ratings at 85).
Strength contributes parry at a rate of 0.25 points of parry rating per point of Strength.
Therefore, before considering diminishing returns, agility is more than twice as effective as strength at mitigation.
Theck's threat calculations to date suggest strength is worth about 16 dps per 10 item points and agility is worth about 12.5. I'm referring to the 1st graph here.

So if I was choosing between two items that were otherwise identical except one had 100 strength and the other had 100 agility, it seem the obvious choice for balanced progression gear is the agility -- double the mitigation and 3/4 the threat. Is that consistent with others assessments? It suggests enchants or multiclass gear (cloaks/necks/trinkets/etc) with agility rather than strength could be optimal choices. Eg. Mouth of the Earth.
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Re: Strength versus Agility

Postby econ21 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:45 am

I think we might have been a little too quick to dismiss agility after it lost its effect on armour.

Does strength still raise block value? If so, that would have to be weighed into the balance.
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Re: Strength versus Agility

Postby lythac » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:06 am

I put this forward when agi contributed towards dodge at a higher rating than it does now and before str gave parry rating - Agility based Jewelry with Mastery.

Back then agi based Jewelery could outperform str based jewelry defensively, but only just and at the possible loss of overall threat.

In a straight case of agi vs str, agi wins but there isn't any case where we have this choice or there is another better option.

On agi based gear you can only have one 1 defensive stat (mastery), 0.4 of a reforged threat stat (hit or exp) and agi (0.54) totalling 1.94. A standard str piece with 2 defensive stats has 2.25.

For threat the agi pieces win, 0.6 of a threat stat (reforged some away) and SEP of agi being 0.78. Single target threat doesn't look to be an issue on Beta.

The only time agi gear looks to be worth it is if there is not a tanking piece with 2 defensive stats. Even then it is close and the agi piece probably is better for someone else.
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Re: Strength versus Agility

Postby Flex » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:28 am

Like Lythac posted you set up a situation that wont happen.

So if I was choosing between two items that were otherwise identical except one had 100 strength and the other had 100 agility


The only way that'll happen is if you have to pick between a Str DPS item and an Agi DPS item.
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Re: Strength versus Agility

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:53 pm

econ21 wrote:Does strength still raise block value? If so, that would have to be weighed into the balance.


No. BV is now a static 30% (or 40%, as the case may be), with possible MetaGem modifiers.
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Re: Strength versus Agility

Postby econ21 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:11 pm

There are cases when we can choose between strength and agility. For example, with weapons. Only the other day, someone asked in the sticky what 232 tanking weapon to use. I said not liar's tongue, it has agility not strength. Now I think I probably gave bad advice:

http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=50302;50290;50268

I think agility is a "balanced stat" and the tendency is for people to recommend specialised gear sets. If you want threat, go for strength. If you want avoidance, go for dodge. But I think the numbers show that for threat, agility is not so far behind strength. And for avoidance, agility is not so far behind dodge. I don't think it should be dismissed as a bad tanking stat just because it no longer gives a small amount of effective health.
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Re: Strength versus Agility

Postby d503 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:26 pm

econ21 wrote:There are cases when we can choose between strength and agility. For example, with weapons. Only the other day, someone asked in the sticky what 232 tanking weapon to use. I said not liar's tongue, it has agility not strength. Now I think I probably gave bad advice:

http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=50302;50290;50268

I think agility is a "balanced stat" and the tendency is for people to recommend specialised gear sets. If you want threat, go for strength. If you want avoidance, go for dodge. But I think the numbers show that for threat, agility is not so far behind strength. And for avoidance, agility is not so far behind dodge. I don't think it should be dismissed as a bad tanking stat just because it no longer gives a small amount of effective health.


I think the real question is will the other stats on an AGI weapon ever make it an option over a STR Tanking weapon when it comes to avoidance/mitigation. The obvious winner from a threat perspective would be a STR DPS weapon (with hit/exp or other stats if capped), and I supposed an AGI DPS weapon would be ok to balance Threat and Mitigation, but I feel like you'd be losing alot more mitigation than you'd be gaining threat...
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Re: Strength versus Agility

Postby Digren » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:55 pm

I believe agility does edge out strength slightly, yes. And I while it doesn't matter in this case (since both are equally affected by it), I assume the conversion ratios you list don't take Kings into account. Taking Kings into account, I think agility may be a little better than I was giving it credit, perhaps to the point that it's worth considering in lieu of parry rating on red gems - IF your dodge/parry ratio is too far off balance in favor of parry. This is a viable scenario, given the parry from all the strength that will litter our gear whether we desire it or not.

When I see exactly how much parry versus dodge a typical level 85 has at each tank level, I'll reevaluate the viability of agility as a stat.

That said - do take caution in using agility just because it provides both avoidance and threat. Unless it equals or exceeds parry rating due to an imbalance, it's not particularly good at either role. You are better served with a piece of gear dedicated towards survivability (i.e. go for the best EH or avoidance option) and a second piece of gear dedicated towards threat (i.e. expertise rating if you're otherwise hit capped). For this reason I'll never recommend agility unless it truly exceeds parry rating straight up for avoidance.
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