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4.2 Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Get help with your character's gear

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Re: 4.2 Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Postby lythac » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:33 am

Pinupgirl_Madoran wrote:Don't get me wrong, I believe people when they say "Stamina for hardmodes" but I've yet to have a healer go "I would be totally OK with you sponging more mana, go put on some stam" and I've yet to die to damage that was too high to heal quick enough.


Currently/Previously when players are saying "Stamina for hard modes" was at the the expense of block cap? Given current gear levels, the differences between more Avoidance or more Sta at block cap are likely to be very low.

Also more stamina does not mean more mana, it can allow for healers to move from inefficient to efficient heals and other benefits.
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Re: 4.2 Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Postby Digren » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:50 am

Pinupgirl_Madoran wrote:
lythac wrote:
Pinupgirl_Madoran wrote:WRT the guide as a whole it values mastery above everything else, but one you're able to block cap, you're more concerned with essentially having the most mitigation possible on all pieces, reforging to 102.4%, and putting all excess mitigation into dodge/parry.

Does that sum things up accurately or am I missing something?


I do not think so.

Once you reach block cap, you start swapping out Mastery gems for Sta gems and Eventually making your way from Mastery trinkets (on use/procs aside) to Sta trinkets.

We are not yet at the point where you can fully gem sta, dual sta trinket and still be at 102.4%



Is it unreasonable for me to say that I wont be putting on stamina until I actually die to damage that I couldn't be healed quick enough from?


Don't get me wrong, I believe people when they say "Stamina for hardmodes" but I've yet to have a healer go "I would be totally OK with you sponging more mana, go put on some stam" and I've yet to die to damage that was too high to heal quick enough. When I run into these situations I have lots of different trinkets and flasks and such in my bag, I can adjust accordingly right then and there, and then play around with gems and such later.

Being "healed quickly enough" means your healers are using less-efficient fast heals. They do that when your percent of remaining health drops very quickly. You can reduce the chance of this happening through A) more avoidance, or B) more stamina. With more avoidance, sometimes your current health won't drop, but sometimes it will drop just as badly as it does now. With stamina, your current health will always drop less (as a percent of total health) than it does now.

Which is better? This question is easy to answer. Go find any gear strategy post written during BC or WotLK and read about Effective Health. Mastery to reach the block cap has distracted us from EH, but once you're block capped all the old EH justifications still apply.
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Re: 4.2 Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Postby Wonton » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:11 am

Just a quick note: In your "tank stages" section, you alternate between using "combined block + avoidance" and "combat table coverage". This is a little bit confusing to me because, as far as I know, avoidance doesn't include miss chance, while CTC does. I may be wrong in this, but either way, it'd be less confusing if you used one term consistently. So, just to be clear, when you say a stage 2 tank needs 70%, or a stage 3 tank needs 78%, do you include the 5% miss chance in those numbers?

Otherwise, great guide. :)
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Re: 4.2 Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Postby lythac » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:35 am

Whilst I suppose you don't actually "avoid" the swing as the boss misses you, avoidance is Miss + Parry + Dodge. Your chance to avoid all damage.
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Re: 4.2 Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Postby Wonton » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:22 pm

In shields, why is Elementium Earthguard listed above Shield of the Blood God? Is it purely for the gem socket and socket bonus?
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Re: 4.2 Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Postby Jaitee » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:58 am

Wonton wrote:In shields, why is Elementium Earthguard listed above Shield of the Blood God? Is it purely for the gem socket and socket bonus?


yep with a mastery gem or a mastery + stam gem and the socket bonus it pulls ahead the difference isnt to great so if you have the shield of the blood god just use it unless you have alot of cash to burn
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Re: 4.2 Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Postby Wonton » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:27 pm

Jaitee wrote:
Wonton wrote:In shields, why is Elementium Earthguard listed above Shield of the Blood God? Is it purely for the gem socket and socket bonus?


yep with a mastery gem or a mastery + stam gem and the socket bonus it pulls ahead the difference isnt to great so if you have the shield of the blood god just use it unless you have alot of cash to burn


Actually, I saw on this guide that the Elementium shield was best in slot until raiding, and immediately went to the AH and burned around 2800g on it...

The ZG shield dropped for me about 3 days later. :(
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Re: 4.2 Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Postby Torias » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:53 am

Well, no harm done; it is the best shield prior to raiding content. :)
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Re: 4.2 Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Postby PsiVen » Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:25 pm

I suspect the Ragnaros shoulders are ranked based on the pre-hotfix dodge/hit stats, while they are now dodge/mastery.

Wonton wrote:Just a quick note: In your "tank stages" section, you alternate between using "combined block + avoidance" and "combat table coverage". This is a little bit confusing to me because, as far as I know, avoidance doesn't include miss chance, while CTC does. I may be wrong in this, but either way, it'd be less confusing if you used one term consistently. So, just to be clear, when you say a stage 2 tank needs 70%, or a stage 3 tank needs 78%, do you include the 5% miss chance in those numbers?

Otherwise, great guide. :)


Avoidance certainly should include miss chance, I would think.
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Re: 4.2 Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Postby Fenrìr » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:28 am

Is there any particular reason why the shoulders from Rag are rated lower than the tier ones? I could understand if the ones from Rag didn't have the dodge, but is the mastery from the tier that much better in your spreadsheet?
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Re: 4.2 Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Postby thunderz » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:55 am

Where would the pvp helm [http://www.wowhead.com/item=70251] place on the list is it worth purchasing?
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Re: 4.2 Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Postby boneyjellyfish » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:10 am

thunderz wrote:Where would the pvp helm [http://www.wowhead.com/item=70251] place on the list is it worth purchasing?

It would probably rank around the normal Daybreaker Helm. If you value mastery more, it would place it just above the Daybreaker Helm due to the armor, stamina, and slight mastery gains.

On the other hand, if you value dodge/parry more, then the Daybreaker Helm beats it out. Either way, if you're looking for a tank helmet that's an upgrade over heroics, the 384 pvp helm is certainly an acceptable choice.
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Trinkets

Postby Lathdari » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:43 am

Am I right in thinking that the trinkets within each category (mastery, stamina, threat) are listed approximately best to worst? If so, are the Scales of Life really that good? The on-use ability strikes me as pretty weak, because by it's nature it tends only to be available when I don't need it. Whereas the proc from the symbiotic worm seems very strong (for people who aren't block capped); is it not strong enough to compensate for the loss of passive stamina?
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Re: Trinkets

Postby Jaitee » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:57 pm

Lathdari wrote:Am I right in thinking that the trinkets within each category (mastery, stamina, threat) are listed approximately best to worst? If so, are the Scales of Life really that good? The on-use ability strikes me as pretty weak, because by it's nature it tends only to be available when I don't need it. Whereas the proc from the symbiotic worm seems very strong (for people who aren't block capped); is it not strong enough to compensate for the loss of passive stamina?


trinkets are just listed in some random order since there is no best or worst trinket just pick what is best for you for the fight your on
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Re: Trinkets

Postby yappo » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:33 am

Jaitee wrote:
Lathdari wrote:Am I right in thinking that the trinkets within each category (mastery, stamina, threat) are listed approximately best to worst? If so, are the Scales of Life really that good? The on-use ability strikes me as pretty weak, because by it's nature it tends only to be available when I don't need it. Whereas the proc from the symbiotic worm seems very strong (for people who aren't block capped); is it not strong enough to compensate for the loss of passive stamina?


trinkets are just listed in some random order since there is no best or worst trinket just pick what is best for you for the fight your on


Not entirely correct, but I understand your argument.

Within a category it's often possible to rank trinkets. For example, A mastery and K strength on-use can certainly be compared against A+b mastery and K+n strength on-use. I'm not saying that more mastery is always a better mastery-trinket compared with one with with less mastery. The on-use, or stacking effect could be fundamentally different from another. The resistance on-use from the TB trink comes to mind.
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