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Where have I gone wrong? Gear advice please

Get help with your character's gear

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Re: Where have I gone wrong? Gear advice please

Postby Swordlight » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:09 am

Feanorion wrote:
Swordlight wrote:Thanks guys. Ok, trinket info helpful. Which dps trinket is good for threat?

I know that sometimes my rotation can be slow due to latency. Also when I am tired etc there is the usual "finger trouble". But I normally keep it flowing. I use the correct rotation and have looked at my recount timings and they are a little slow. I think I often mess up by clipping. I used to get a little bar in my UI showing cast time and when I could trigger the next one to take account of latency but I can't seem to find that anymore. Not sure if it was an add on? Any ideas?

Finally logs - we don't log but I would like to start because it would be very helpful for us. How do I go about it? Which add ons/set ups are good for guild/raid logging?

Cheers,

Swordlight


Actually, just for my own peace of mind, would you specify exactly what your rotation is? Assume no hand of ---- spells or anything funky. Patchwerk-type rotation.

There is an add-on I highly recommend. The following is a Curse.com link to TankadinTPS.
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/tankadintps.aspx
It gives detailed information on a fight-by-fight basis. It is NOT as good as parsed logs, but it is easy to use, you can see it in game, and you can save particular fights and share the info with other TTPS users.


I normally open with AS or HoR depending but for my 6969 I do HotR, HS, SoR, JoW, Cons as a starter and I try and keep that flowing, once HoW comes up under 20% I use that instead of Cons if single target. I also try and keep HW going when off CD if undead or demons.

I installed that add on thanks, and am going to read the logs and see whats going on.

Cheers, Swordlight
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Re: Where have I gone wrong? Gear advice please

Postby Swordlight » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:12 am

econ21 wrote:
Feanorion wrote: Your problem may lie in one point of your spec: move the point of Conviction into Seal of Command.


This, a thousand times this. At least if the problem is threat on trash[1]. If it's threat on bosses, I am mystified.

It's going to be, erm, interesting to see how we adjust to losing SoC in Cataclysm as it is totally OP on trash right now.


[1]Note you will want a shield block threat libram for SoC, as the SoV one obviously is wasted.


I have now moved the point into seal of command - Wow! I cannot believe the difference! Why did I not do that before <doh>
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Re: Where have I gone wrong? Gear advice please

Postby Swordlight » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:16 am

Feanorion wrote:
golfinguy wrote:
Feanorion wrote:Gloves: I abhor the Amrsman enchant. I would use stamina kit or Glove Reinforcements http://www.wowhead.com/item=34207


Sure, sure - but for a toon struggling for threat let em have the 2%. It will help with the current issue and not hurt anything. You seem to possess a lot of emotion over such a minor issue :wink:


Also, missing the 'sense undead' minor glyph - for those running ICC that's a mistake. There's another 1% for you vs. the relative uselessness of the blessing glyphs.


If he is producing low threat, Armsman provides less benefit. If he is only producing 7k tps, then that is only an additional 140 tps. That is a pretty insignificant bonus. Armsman would only help if the caster dps are producing 131-132% of his non-Armsman threat. If they are producing 133% or more, they will still pull off of him.

As I said, I would be amazed if his problem is gear-related, and I am absolutely convinced that Strength gems and Armsman are not going to solve the problem.

In fact, while using Strength gems and Armsman, he has had threat problems. Those are clearly not adequate solutions. Since my gear is not much better than his (aside from gems/enchants), and I have few problems with threat and none that a timely HoSalv or Avenging Wrath can't solve, then I am inclined to believe the problem is most likely player-related. Not necessarily the OP; I really want to see if TotT and/or MD's are being used, and if so, upon whom.


Looked at the fights a bit closer last night, the hunter and rogue I had then were ToT/MD and no problems. So I suspect its the other hunter/rogue we used last week that are the problem, because I noticed the aggro monkey is our demo lock, who burns out 8k just in a random Hc yet last night no problems with the good rogue/hunter. Our rogue has ToT macro'd into her abilities and it has a high uptime I noticed.
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Re: Where have I gone wrong? Gear advice please

Postby Swordlight » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:33 am

Chasey wrote:@ swordlight, looked over the toon again. Looking alot better just a few other pieces of advice and I know its expenisve doing this but you are gemming Exp/stam and you have stam/run speed on your boots.
You have 26 exp showing on you armory and glyph'd SoV which add an additional 10 exp putting you above cap. Also have Poj in your build the boot enchant and Poj don't stack.

I also agree on the Armsman, its not itemized well at all and threat really shouldn't be an issue so that 2% won't help much.


Ok, replaced boot enchant with Stamina on boots, plus replaced an expertise/def gem with another stam
Last edited by Swordlight on Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where have I gone wrong? Gear advice please

Postby Swordlight » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:35 am

golfinguy wrote:
Feanorion wrote:Gloves: I abhor the Amrsman enchant. I would use stamina kit or Glove Reinforcements http://www.wowhead.com/item=34207


Sure, sure - but for a toon struggling for threat let em have the 2%. It will help with the current issue and not hurt anything. You seem to possess a lot of emotion over such a minor issue :wink:


Also, missing the 'sense undead' minor glyph - for those running ICC that's a mistake. There's another 1% for you vs. the relative uselessness of the blessing glyphs.



Replaced Blessing with sense undead glyph, ty

I have made the changes suggested by you guys over the last page of threads and it has made a HUGE difference, the only one I struggle with now is the occasional imba lock, but usually its when their pets are on taunt! I'm going to run this spec now and see how it goes.

Any last minute suggestions would be much appreciated.

Seriously, you guys are great and I can't thank you enough :D

Cheers,

Swordlight
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Re: Where have I gone wrong? Gear advice please

Postby Vrimmel » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:18 am

We may still be able to hold aggro against dps of similar gear level, but our threat is in general worse than with DKs or warriors. Not so much at sustained threat, but definately when it comes to burst threat.
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Re: Where have I gone wrong? Gear advice please

Postby Feanorion » Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:16 am

Vrimmel wrote:We may still be able to hold aggro against dps of similar gear level, but our threat is in general worse than with DKs or warriors. Not so much at sustained threat, but definately when it comes to burst threat.


I am certainly not one known as a bright-sider, but we have tools to make threat ours solidly. Bursty-threat? Pop wings, Salv the highest agro-rider. If the mob looks at someone else, pally-slap it immediately. If there are multiple mobs running loose towards someone, RD them or HoProt them. If there is higgeldy-piggeldy chaos, you pulled improperly, don't have RF up, or your OT just imploded.
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Re: Where have I gone wrong? Gear advice please

Postby golfinguy » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:07 pm

Feanorion wrote:
golfinguy wrote:
Feanorion wrote:Gloves: I abhor the Amrsman enchant. I would use stamina kit or Glove Reinforcements http://www.wowhead.com/item=34207


Sure, sure - but for a toon struggling for threat let em have the 2%. It will help with the current issue and not hurt anything. You seem to possess a lot of emotion over such a minor issue :wink:


Also, missing the 'sense undead' minor glyph - for those running ICC that's a mistake. There's another 1% for you vs. the relative uselessness of the blessing glyphs.


If he is producing low threat, Armsman provides less benefit. If he is only producing 7k tps, then that is only an additional 140 tps. That is a pretty insignificant bonus. Armsman would only help if the caster dps are producing 131-132% of his non-Armsman threat. If they are producing 133% or more, they will still pull off of him.

As I said, I would be amazed if his problem is gear-related, and I am absolutely convinced that Strength gems and Armsman are not going to solve the problem.

In fact, while using Strength gems and Armsman, he has had threat problems. Those are clearly not adequate solutions. Since my gear is not much better than his (aside from gems/enchants), and I have few problems with threat and none that a timely HoSalv or Avenging Wrath can't solve, then I am inclined to believe the problem is most likely player-related. Not necessarily the OP; I really want to see if TotT and/or MD's are being used, and if so, upon whom.



Yes, yes - likely plenty of issues causing his problem. 2% isn't much at all, but inversely neither is 180 hp. If you believe the 2% threat to lack any help, I can say 180hp isn't going to keep me alive any better either. Matter of fact - 180 hp is less than a 0.5% gain in health for someone at just 40K. A 2% gain is paltry but a 0.5% gain is good? I think it time to say 'meh', who cares either way.
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Re: Where have I gone wrong? Gear advice please

Postby DexterBelgium » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:36 am

Swordlight wrote:I normally open with AS or HoR depending but for my 6969 I do HotR, HS, SoR, JoW, Cons as a starter and I try and keep that flowing, once HoW comes up under 20% I use that instead of Cons if single target. I also try and keep HW going when off CD if undead or demons.

I installed that add on thanks, and am going to read the logs and see whats going on.

Cheers, Swordlight


I'm sorry for butting in, but there seems to be something missing there (i felt it when emulating your rotation with my hand (muscle memory ftw):
-HotR (6)
-HS (9)
-SoR (6)
-JoW (9)
- ???? (everyone knows its this step that leads to "PROFIT!" ;)
- Cons (9)

You are missing, if this is really what you do, a HoTR ahead of the Cons, which, it seems to me, would indeed cause a boatload of missed upfront threat.
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Re: Where have I gone wrong? Gear advice please

Postby Rhylia » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:14 pm

Proper 969 rotation dictates the following:

Code: Select all
While running to mob/positioning, use AS/HoR
0 - HS (9)
1.5 - HotR (6)
3 - Judgement (9)
4.5 - ShoR(6)
6 - Consecrate(9)
Now things start coming off CD
7.5 - HotR
9 - HS
10.5 - ShoR
12 - Judgement
13.5 - HotR
15 - Consecrate
16.5 - ShoR
Back to the beginning of the sequence


Gemming is still a bit wonky (IMO) so here are my recommendations:
  • Shoulders should be all Stam
  • Chest should be all Stam
  • Gloves should be all Stam
  • Legs should be all Stam
Chest should be all Stam gems because the +12 Stam socket bonus isn't worth it when you look at it like this: You are using 2 non-blue gems to get the bonus. Each gem is effectively getting half of the bonus then. 15 Stam from gem + 6 Stam from bonus = 21 Stam total, which isn't even as much as the blue-quality Stam gem and therefore isn't worth gemming for.
The other gems are just common sense as you aren't going for socket bonuses in your shoulders, gloves, or legs, so why are there gems other than Stam gems in those sockets?

I partially agree with what has already been said about glove enchants, but I still think that the Heavy Borean kit is better for one reason: That 240 armor isn't going to be doing you much good in a fight where you take more magic damage than physical damage, while 18 Stam is always useful.

Your spec is basically everything you need. Some people (like myself) have that one point in Benediction finishing out 2/2 Imp. Judgements, even though you only need 1/2 in order to be able to do 969. It really doesn't matter there, I think. Your glyphs are basically the same as mine; the only difference being I took GoRD as I don't have near as much hit rating as you do.

Keep in mind that everything here is mostly my opinion, but I think that most that are around your gear/progression level or higher will agree with most of what I have said. Good luck in your endeavors and keep striving to be the best you can be!
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