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So how exactly should I be gemming?

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So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby obiwayne » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:32 pm

I've read the Gemming/Enchant thread for a while now, and I'm still a bit confused for my Pally. I've just bought the 264 Cataclysmic Chestguard. I tank in regular ICC10 and 25 with my guild's second progression team, typically as the Main Tank but sometimes as the OT if one of our A-team tanks comes along. My health currently sits at just over 40K unbuffed, however my hit rating is only like 136.

Previously I had the 251 Ghoul Commander's Cuirass and just gemmed pure Stamina. However, most advice I read says to gem to the socket if the socket bonus is +12, which Cataclysmic Chestguard is. So at this point should I gem:

* Blue: Solid Majestic Zircon (+30 Stam)
* Yellow: Vivid Eye of Zul (+10 Hit/+15 Stam)
* Red: Shifting Dreadstone (+10 Agi/+15 Stam)

or just gem 3x Solid Majestic Zircons? The guide is a little bit confusing and kinda hard to follow with all of the theorycraft. The same goes for my 264 Verdigris Chain Belt.. I'm currently just gemming stamina but I'm not sure if I should socket the Red slot with something else and get the +9 Stamina socket bonus.

Which should I focus on since I am tanking the endgame?
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Re: So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby Pyrena » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:52 pm

Personally, I take every socketbonus with at least +9 stamina if the socket requires one red or yellow gem.
However, you need two gems other than blue for the Cat, which comes down to a bonus of +6 stamina per yellow or red gem (weird word order. I hope you'll get what I mean :roll: ).

So in my opinion you can confidently skip the bonus.
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Re: So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby Barathorn » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:12 pm

I don't know if I always gem as its advisable to do so, I probably don't. I haven't really followed the great advice given here that often about socket bonuses because I don't look at the overall picture of what a tank needs. This is shortsighted but I will explain why I gem this way.

I gem on the strength of a piece of gear. If something like the Cat Chest has bundles of armor and stamina there is only once choice for me. Pure + 30 stamina simply to enhance the piece. It is built for effective health, therefore I gem accordingly. I could use Agil/Stam gems but I don't. I want my equipment to be modular so I know what each piece can be swapped in and out for for different fights. I would suggest the Cat Chest is a bad example here, for a lot of us it is the BiS that we will see in this expansion.

The real question I think for ICC tanks is basically this,

'With the current ICC buff do I need to worry about effective health if I am in mainly 251+ gear?'

In ICC you don't need to worry so much anymore I would suggest. Gemming for +9 stamina socket bonuses is probably ok. However I don't follow my own advice simply because I know I want that cushion. I know I want to be able to walk into a PuG for Ruby Sanctum and not get funny comments. For me Stamina is still a huge thing for the content I am working on. It gives my healers room to breathe and enjoy the content and if they have an off night, it isn't going to cause multiple wipes because I have that cushion.

'Gem for what you need for the content you are in'.

If you follow Digren's excellant guide you won't go far wrong. I follow the basics but make informed choices about each piece of gear. I don't know if that is good advice for people new to ICC10. I would always put Digren's guidelines first as the example of how you should gem and enchant. I choose not always to do so because I know what I need to achieve.
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Re: So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby obiwayne » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:17 pm

Thank you very much, you make some very valid points. So I think I will skip the bonus for the Cataclysmic Chestguard, but get one of the bonuses for the belt which only has one red. Given the red socket I'm thinking +Agi/Stam, but one of the top paladin tanks on my server has it socketed with Str/Stam, which do you think would be better, or is it just personal preference? I also think I'm going to do the same thing with my Helmet, I'm currently using a Nightmare Tear but I think I can socket something more appropriate.
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Re: So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby Barathorn » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:34 pm

obiwayne wrote:Thank you very much, you make some very valid points. So I think I will skip the bonus for the Cataclysmic Chestguard, but get one of the bonuses for the belt which only has one red. Given the red socket I'm thinking +Agi/Stam, but one of the top paladin tanks on my server has it socketed with Str/Stam, which do you think would be better, or is it just personal preference?


Its personal preference. Str/Stam is for threat. I personally am ok with threat currently ish so I would use agil/stam. It is a personal choice but I wouldn't generally gem for str/stam for anything other than a gimmick fight or if I knew I was threat capping DPS.

Bear in mind that newer tanks may not have the luxury of having the experiance of tanking for 4 years [and so know a few tricks] or be fortunate to be in a guild that understands aggro and the need for threat consolidation at the start of a fight. If you a PuG'er and are new to 80, you may need threat more than Effective Health for anything upto and including ICC10.
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Re: So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby yappo » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:39 pm

obiwayne wrote:Given the red socket I'm thinking +Agi/Stam, but one of the top paladin tanks on my server has it socketed with Str/Stam, which do you think would be better, or is it just personal preference?


Just be aware that 'old' tanks are wading around in Frost Emblems. Even I (scrub tank as I am) have started to buy doubles to configure differently depending on the job I plan to do. Hence it's a wee bit dangerous to say that <name of tank> has enchanted/gemmed <name of gear> this way, because it could very well be true only for ONE copy of said gear.

That said, in general I'd go agi/stam when matching a red socket for tanking purposes. Now IF my goal with the gear is to maximize damage/threat, then str/stam (or possibly str/crit if I want to go wild) it is.

Last, when configuring gear think of your 'workspace'. If you KNOW that you NEVER die before the raid has already wiped, then extra survivability is in all likelyhood a waste of resources. While you can't make people not stand in fire, at least you can help meeting those enrage-timers, and that means pumping out more damage. However, don't do this at the cost of translating that 'NEVER' into 'ALMOST CERTAINLY'.
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Re: So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby Barathorn » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:41 pm

yappo wrote:
obiwayne wrote:Given the red socket I'm thinking +Agi/Stam, but one of the top paladin tanks on my server has it socketed with Str/Stam, which do you think would be better, or is it just personal preference?


Just be aware that 'old' tanks are wading around in Frost Emblems. Even I (scrub tank as I am) have started to buy doubles to configure differently depending on the job I plan to do. Hence it's a wee bit dangerous to say that <name of tank> has enchanted/gemmed <name of gear> this way, because it could very well be true only for ONE copy of said gear.

That said, in general I'd go agi/stam when matching a red socket for tanking purposes. Now IF my goal with the gear is to maximize damage/threat, then str/stam (or possibly str/crit if I want to go wild) it is.

Last, when configuring gear think of your 'workspace'. If you KNOW that you NEVER die before the raid has already wiped, then extra survivability is in all likelyhood a waste of resources. While you can't make people not stand in fire, at least you can help meeting those enrage-timers, and that means pumping out more damage. However, don't do this at the cost of translating that 'NEVER' into 'ALMOST CERTAINLY'.


In 3 months we have completely changed how we give advice :shock: . I wonder if the advice we give now is simply what the frontrunners already saw back then or if our advice was solid.

The ICC Buff is a fickle mistress. It changes everything.
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Re: So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby yappo » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:58 pm

Barathorn wrote:In 3 months we have completely changed how we give advice :shock: . I wonder if the advice we give now is simply what the frontrunners already saw back then or if our advice was solid.

The ICC Buff is a fickle mistress. It changes everything.


I believe it's not until about now it's starting to sink in that this is not TBC. From the moment ICC was released you've been able to gear ahead of your content. From what I've read (as I was never even close to tanking raids in TBC) you pretty much had to kill stuff to get stuff to kill harder stuff to...

Now, not only can you become 50% ICC 25 normal diff geared without ever walking inside, but to top it off, WHEN you finally step inside for the first time (if you're a latecomer), you're met by a waiter offering you 25% extra cheese on everything.
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Re: So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby Fiaraa » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:58 pm

I gem exp/stam in red to make sure I'm capped.
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Re: So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby Tats » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:22 pm

obiwayne wrote:I've read the Gemming/Enchant thread for a while now, and I'm still a bit confused for my Pally. I've just bought the 264 Cataclysmic Chestguard. I tank in regular ICC10 and 25 with my guild's second progression team, typically as the Main Tank but sometimes as the OT if one of our A-team tanks comes along. My health currently sits at just over 40K unbuffed, however my hit rating is only like 136.

Previously I had the 251 Ghoul Commander's Cuirass and just gemmed pure Stamina. However, most advice I read says to gem to the socket if the socket bonus is +12, which Cataclysmic Chestguard is. So at this point should I gem:

* Blue: Solid Majestic Zircon (+30 Stam)
* Yellow: Vivid Eye of Zul (+10 Hit/+15 Stam)
* Red: Shifting Dreadstone (+10 Agi/+15 Stam)

or just gem 3x Solid Majestic Zircons? The guide is a little bit confusing and kinda hard to follow with all of the theorycraft. The same goes for my 264 Verdigris Chain Belt.. I'm currently just gemming stamina but I'm not sure if I should socket the Red slot with something else and get the +9 Stamina socket bonus.

Which should I focus on since I am tanking the endgame?


Im sure alot of people here would laugh at the idea of gemming anything but stamina, fortunately, I am not one of those people ;P

Bara covered it pretty good though, Gem what you need, for when you need it. I dont think there is any problem with you gemming for socket bonus in that chest, or belt.
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Re: So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby Vrimmel » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:34 pm

I strongly suggest you socket nothing but stamina (and one purple for meta ofc) if you want to be taken seriously as a tank. If you are low on stats like hit or expertise it is better to use items which has more of these. As you expand your wardrobe you can begin experimenting with other gems for avoidance or threat sets.
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Re: So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby Tats » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:07 pm

Vrimmel wrote:I strongly suggest you socket nothing but stamina (and one purple for meta ofc) if you want to be taken seriously as a tank.


Note that it is misinformed comments like this that hurt our community.

to op, socket the bonuses! :)
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Re: So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby Marklevin » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:54 pm

Tats wrote:
Vrimmel wrote:I strongly suggest you socket nothing but stamina (and one purple for meta ofc) if you want to be taken seriously as a tank.


Note that it is misinformed comments like this that hurt our community.

to op, socket the bonuses! :)


I think Vrimmel was talking about PUGs. If you PUG, the one number they will look at (after Gear Score) is going to be your health, so if you want to get taken seriously in PUG situations, you need to have a high health pool. Even for old content like Ulduar 10 or Naxx 10 for weekly runs, people look at and judge far too much on pure health pools, because they've grown to accept 40k+ as the norm, and don't think 25-30k is acceptable in any form.
Personally, I think ToC had the hardest trash in the game. Wait... what do you mean? Those were bosses!? Lies.
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Re: So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby yappo » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:27 am

Marklevin wrote:I think Vrimmel was talking about PUGs. If you PUG, the one number they will look at (after Gear Score) is going to be your health, so if you want to get taken seriously in PUG situations, you need to have a high health pool. Even for old content like Ulduar 10 or Naxx 10 for weekly runs, people look at and judge far too much on pure health pools, because they've grown to accept 40k+ as the norm, and don't think 25-30k is acceptable in any form.


Fair enough, but he should stack unneeded stamina at the cost of stats he actually needs AFTER knowing that this is indeed what he's doing.
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Re: So how exactly should I be gemming?

Postby Vrimmel » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:55 am

Not only pugs, but also getting into guilds or earning trust as a fresh tank in a guild. If you are going to tank content which you are overgeared (icc with current buffs) I would rather gem for threat(loltankdps) than avoidance. If you want to avoid being two-shot by Halion, i recommend going for stamina. If you absolutely are going to get the socket bonus for your progression set, dont go for less than 9 stamina per gem.

I would be interested to see if anyone can find one of the main tanks in one of the top guilds in the world who gems for anything else than stamina.
Last edited by Vrimmel on Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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