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Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby beornus » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:15 pm

Thank you Bara, this has been my favorite thread for weeks and I am proud of what you did.
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I should have kept quiet and thought a fool then to have typed and removed all doubt.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Arincia » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:08 pm

You have to realize also this was not a personal failure. You cannot control 9 other people. Its like the saying goes " you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink". You can tell people what to do to play better and down bosses but at the end of the day you can't make them do it. You still successfully tanked ICC 10. You didn't die to lack of health or armor or other mistakes then it was success. I mean change things around a bit. You could have easily gotten a group with people who know all the fights with proper execution and gone 7+ bosses dead in icc 10. The fact is you still in 24 hours of play time at 8 hours a week (so only 3 weeks at 1 hour a day except 2 hours once a week) got a 4.5k gs and into ICC 10 and successfully cleared the trash and downed the first boss. If you look at the group to begin, with as you yourself pointed out, it probably wasn't going to get past saurfang(much less marrowgaur) but that's a group failure not a individual failure.

As a individual you succeeded and showed us that a super casual person can still successfully gear up and raid within 24 hours with minimal help and support at 1 hour a day. You also showed us that there is a range of tolerance to people as well. If you have less then a 4k gs people understand your gearing and willing to work with you most the time but once you hit the 4-5k gs range your in a terrible rut. Your to high for people to be forgiving/understanding your gearing up and to low for people to not question you and give you a willing chance for success without looking more past gs.

This also highlights the problems of daily/weekly easy to get emblems. At 23 emblems a week you can get a piece of gear every 2 or 3 weeks before your in a raid. Include the fact people have had 8 months of this puts you at a situation that most people who have been religious about the weekly and daily have accumulated 736 EoF. That's back/chest/shoulder/helm/legs/hands/waist/trinket and still having 171 EoF (if i did the math right) still left over. That's before you even acount for the various VoA drops, ICC first 4 bosses in 10 and 25 drops, and other emblems from downing the raid bosses themselves. People have just been overinflated on EoF for a super long time now. I mean EoF gear even outstrips HM 10 man gear and is equal to 25 man normal gear. So the only gear differences come in 25 HM gear. But people will still use gs as a way to exclude people they just don't like and use a very surface excuse to exclude them without sitting down and saying you know his gear is good(or bad) looks like budgeting issues on gems/enchants(or none) but everything looks in place for spec/glyphs (or horrible) or say hey they have a great raid experience on downing bosses to now maybe they know how to execute properly. People don't want to think about it the want a 1 second answer to judge people (aka gs and achievements) and move on as fast as possible.

Anyways back to topic to repeat you meet your goals. You got into a icc 10 group. You were not a liability to the bosses or the cause of failures or being carried. The failure of other people to meet up their standards should not be why you failed. As a final note no guild really put yourself into the extreme end on this a lot people while leveling end up in a guild for better or worse. (a social stigma if you will to be guildless) A guild also provides a vast resource network for people for everything they can need.

TO repeat: YOUR GOALS FOR THIS SUCCEEDED BUT YOUR PUG GROUP FAILED BUT NOT DUE TO YOU! that is just random luck on the pugs you got in with and you cannot account for that.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Pala » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:21 pm

Thank you Barathorn for your case study and I look forward to your conclusion. This thread has been one of my favorites to check on each time I visit Maintankadin. I rooted for you while reading each day's events. I agree that you did succeed by being a good tank in an ICC10 PUG.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Digz » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:11 pm

Bara, look at it this way, you built a team from scratch and you made the playoffs in your first go at it. Well done my man! You got in there and honestly your team let you down. Nothing at all to do with you.

Now if only you could get a toon up before the expac and do this all over again as case study number 2 for us to compare this study with what you have learned man that would be great. Regardless, You got in so well done.

The big thing I would take away...the OTHER tank got replaced!!! CAN I GET AN AMEN!
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Gamingdevil » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:19 am

Digz wrote:The big thing I would take away...the OTHER tank got replaced!!! CAN I GET AN AMEN!


This. You've proven to your group that skill far outweighs GS.

You also go into the group at all. Your goals have been met. Congratulations. Don't feel bad about the group failure.
If it is weak, kill it before it gets stronger. If it is strong, weaken it.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby yappo » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:26 am

Forum ate my post.

Grats Bara. You made your goal with three hours to go. With one ICC 10 boss under your belt you're now officially an ICC 10 tank.

Time for Case Study #2, if you have the heart for it: How to gear up a green pugging raid-tank :D
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby hoho » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:37 am

If you really want to you could just not gather extra gear/emblems for a week and try again next week in hopes the group won't suck as much.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Bobness » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:36 am

Bara,

Just spotted this thread.

Kudos to you, a great read many thanks.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Shoju » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:01 am

Barathorn,

I bow to you sir. This thread has made me re evaluate the way I look at people in Daily randoms. it has made me rethink the way I look at people in a VoA PuG, and it makes me realize that while I may not raid as much as others, there are still people who play less than me. I hadn't thought about the fact that I was at times a casual snob. "If I have enough time to get to this point, why the %^*&* don't you?" Well, because I'm not new to the game, I'm not as limited on play time as I thought, and I have the one of the greatest WoW resources on the net at my disposal.

You didn't fail. You stuck to a very specific plan, and along the way, realized that you even hindered yourself more than the average player. You started with almost 0 gold (500 right? I mean, god, that's a day of dailies + randoms if you think about it) and you went to ICECROWN FREAKING CITADEL in 24 hours of played time. AND YOU KILLED MARROWGAR. Like someone else said. At the beginning of the raid, you had the attention of the ENTIRE RAID on you because of your GS. By the time you got to Marrowgar, the 'better geared' tank was kicked, because you were clearly the more capable tank.

I have been thinking about trying to do this, but I'm not sure how I would want to do it. I have a 68 shaman, that I thought about doing something like this on as a DPS/healer, but I don't know how true I could make the comparison. I have dual spec already which would allow me to quest/run dungeons better than the average new 80. Ideas abound :)

The only thing that I would ask, pretty please with sugar, cherries, whip cream, and caramel on top: canihazarmorynow?
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Syncognition » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:39 am

As a freshly dinged 80 tank, I find this thread (and this site in general) to be amazingly helpful. Thank you so much!

Currently I'm finding myself in a situation where everyone I run with out-gears me. Last night I set foot in my first raid ever (ulduar) as an offtank for the weekly (razorscale). We only did the one boss, but it was very exciting. We then tried to do Onyxia 10, which failed hard due to lack a coordination between the main tank, myself, and DPS on how we were going to handle the adds in phase 2. Also doesn't help that no one was moving out of the way during the deep breath. I can honestly say I was probably a weak link as well for not knowing much of the fight mechanics other than what I've read (I feel you don't know the fight until you experience it).

It may not be ICC, but I feel you on trying to tank as a new 80. I'm routinely bashed for being below 30k health unbuffed, and while I have had no problems in execution during heroic 5 mans there is always a lot of bellyaching about my gearscore and HP at the start that I have to block out. This thread has given me some needed support by letting me know a new 80 CAN tank from day one and not have to settle for being DPS until geared.

Thanks again! I look forward to any other projects you might come up with. =D

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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Krelanth » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:44 pm

I found this thread, and site, late in my gearing up phase but I still learned a lot.

I almost did what you did but with far fewer restrictions on myself. I hit 80 with a few(5) friends at the beginning of July. From there until last week it was a mad rush of regular and then heroic dungeons to get emblems and loot so I could tank and they could dps/heal. It was a fun trip and I am proud to say as of last night we are 6/12 in ICC.

I cant imagine doing it the way you did, but it was very interesting to see how you were treated in pugs(I rarely ran with less than 2 people I knew in my group, one of which was invariably a healer). I have learned a massive amount about gearing and dealing with people from your thread.

Thank you for your time in this experiment and documentation. I think it will be a valuable tool for us all moving forward.

I would like to reiterate what others have said: You did not fail!
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby econ21 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:49 pm

Congratulations, Barathorn! You did it - from level 80 to ICC in 24 hours is very impressive.

But now I am sad, as this thread was my daily fix - the first thing I read when browsing this site. Now that it is concluded, life is just a little bit less interesting. Hopefully your account will inspire similar threads - maybe someone with beta access next?
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Barathorn » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:37 am

econ21 wrote:Congratulations, Barathorn! You did it - from level 80 to ICC in 24 hours is very impressive.

But now I am sad, as this thread was my daily fix - the first thing I read when browsing this site. Now that it is concluded, life is just a little bit less interesting. Hopefully your account will inspire similar threads - maybe someone with beta access next?


Thank you to everyone who has offered congratulations, it really was a roller coaster ride of emotions.

Once the dust has settled and I/we have analysed the data I have collected then I will start thinking about the next case study. There will be more econ21, worry not!
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Donahu » Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:18 am

Definitely made my night reading this ;).

Too bad I didn't get ANY work done now and have an hour to crap out an EOT and EPR :P.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Shoju » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:31 am

MASSIVE EDIT:

I have decided that I'm going to do a case study as a Melee DPS. Why?

Melee DPS have key things that they need to juggle to be competitive in a raid (hit, expertise), and are a dime a dozen, meaning that you you need to be ready to go, ready to be good, and ready to get told no an awful lot.

So, tonight, I will start this. I am close enough to level 70 that I can divorce myself from my other characters and still be ok. I will utilize my own professions on my alts, but only when I can furnish my own mats, and will deduct a realm appropriate tip from all gold he has for such services.

I will start a posting about it in the off spec forums, just to get everything ready, and keep a running total of the gold that I'm able to accquire between now and 80.
Last edited by Shoju on Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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