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Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby ulushnar » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:44 am

Crap Tank, no fans! ;)

Nah, impressive work Bara.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Barathorn » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:55 am

While all of your kind words are gratefully acknowledged I didn't do this for kudos or for myself and the Guild. Thank you all anyway though, it is very calming to have such great support. The real kudos should goto econ21 and yappo for having the discussion that made me act in the first place!

I did this so as a community we had a better idea of what a new tank would face and so we would be able to offer better advice to fresh 80's. I hope we have all learnt a considerable amount. I know I did and it will change how I give advice to people.

Summary to come once RL calms down and I stop trying to sell MTG cards and catch up on the TV for 4 weeks worth of stuff on the HD box.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Shoju » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:00 am

Barathorn wrote:Summary to come once RL calms down and I stop trying to sell MTG cards and catch up on the TV for 4 weeks worth of stuff on the HD box.



MTG?! man... I haven't played that in forever. The last time I remember playing competitively I was confounding people with an Anvil of Bogarden(sp?)/Megrim deck in Type II. No one understood how in the world such a dumb deck beat them. I made t8 at the Origins Tournament that year with it, Losing out to an insane Red deck that just ate me up too fast. No about of removal seemed to matter.

When Urza block came in and Tolarian Academy decks start blowing people down I quit playing.

I still have most of a set of Power 9. I'm missing a Time Walk and mox sapphire. Sold them a couple of months ago, and I'm slowly parting with the rest.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Blackharon » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:07 am

Barathorn wrote:While all of your kind words are gratefully acknowledged I didn't do this for kudos or for myself and the Guild. Thank you all anyway though, it is very calming to have such great support. The real kudos should goto econ21 and yappo for having the discussion that made me act in the first place!

I did this so as a community we had a better idea of what a new tank would face and so we would be able to offer better advice to fresh 80's. I hope we have all learnt a considerable amount. I know I did and it will change how I give advice to people.

Summary to come once RL calms down and I stop trying to sell MTG cards and catch up on the TV for 4 weeks worth of stuff on the HD box.


I would like - the real kudos goes to the Maintankadin community for proving that if a new tank finds Maintankadin and the support that they bring, they have half a chance in hell on not rage-respeccing to dps.

Thanks Bara for this insight, its been some time since I was a new to sitting behind a shield and forgot how trying it is.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Velaegis » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:46 am

Wish I found this earlier, very good read, one part I found funny though...

Day 3, "Make sure you go fast tank or I will take over as I have ICC gear" - From a DK

Same exact thing happened to me, and the group decided to let her tank instead. We wiped on trash mobs and they put me back as tank for a wipe-free, successful run :mrgreen:
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby malnayis » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:19 am

I recently did the same with a pala. Dont even want to know how hard it would have been if i didnt have my guild helping me. Not my first character, but it is my first tank. I have tanked ICC twice now (guild run) the only problem I run into is that most of my guildies are so much better geared than me i have a hard time holding aggro. especially at LDW when i have to taunt off the other tank. we would have wiped were it not for ny insanely geared/skilled GL holydin. not sure what im doing wrong, but i cant hold her no matter what i do.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Galektra » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:34 am

malnayis wrote:I recently did the same with a pala. Dont even want to know how hard it would have been if i didnt have my guild helping me. Not my first character, but it is my first tank. I have tanked ICC twice now (guild run) the only problem I run into is that most of my guildies are so much better geared than me i have a hard time holding aggro. especially at LDW when i have to taunt off the other tank. we would have wiped were it not for ny insanely geared/skilled GL holydin. not sure what im doing wrong, but i cant hold her no matter what i do.


Are you sure you’re not experiencing the ‘touch of insignificance’ debuff that she does? Each stack decreases your threat by 20%, so at 5 stacks you will be generating zero threat.

If you are having difficulties with no stacks, I'd be interested in seeing your spec and rotation.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby warden » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:58 am

One of our guild spriest just had his first alt, a tankadin, hit 80 and start heroics. Running his very first heroic with him brought this post to mind. Bara, I think that your efforts in doing this study and writing this up has lessons for us, not only in how we advise new tanks, but in how we act as healers/dps in runs with people that seem to be undergeared or struggling.

I know that several times I had the urge to try to make the run move faster, just blow up mobs with no regard for threat, or otherwise just try to power through it, but the perspective you showed us here made me actually think about this stuff rather than going on auto-pilot. Thank you :)
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Chunes » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:42 pm

Wow. Just stumbled upon this thread and my place of employment thanks you for the entirely unproductive 2 hours I spent crawling through the thread.

All things considered, I think you achieved something not many people would be able to, considering the resources at your disposal. Chapeau to you, sir.

This whole thread really, really highlights the importance of having several things in this game.

1) A solid network of friends who you can rely on

I have two RL friends, both very experienced players who decided to essentially reroll on my server. One's a DK tank and the other a warlock. With my help tank boosting / gear feeding the DK tank and then healbotting him and the lock when the dk tank's gear was sufficient to tank heroics, we got them both to about 5k badscore in probably a total of 15 hrs in heroics and 4 hours in raids.

2) A solid economic infrastructure to rely on.

Much of the success of gearing my two friends up so fast was the sheer purchasing power I have at my disposal. "What's that? we need 26 primordial saronites and a slew of other mats? I'M ON IT (just pay me back)" or "Oh hey mr DK tank. I bought you a hilt. happy birthday or something".

3) Spare time

1 hour per night and a smattering of raid hours is an extremely restrictive, but in some cases realistic, limitation to work within. Not everyone has the luxury of logging 5-7 hours per night 5 nights a week (that's my current routine at least). No doubt your priorities shift when you have such limited time. For the bingers like me, it's just "queue heroic -> queue heroic -> queue heroic -> ad nauseam as i'm sure you know.

All in all, thanks for this interesting writeup!
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby malnayis » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:22 pm

Galektra wrote:
malnayis wrote:I recently did the same with a pala. Dont even want to know how hard it would have been if i didnt have my guild helping me. Not my first character, but it is my first tank. I have tanked ICC twice now (guild run) the only problem I run into is that most of my guildies are so much better geared than me i have a hard time holding aggro. especially at LDW when i have to taunt off the other tank. we would have wiped were it not for ny insanely geared/skilled GL holydin. not sure what im doing wrong, but i cant hold her no matter what i do.


Are you sure you’re not experiencing the ‘touch of insignificance’ debuff that she does? Each stack decreases your threat by 20%, so at 5 stacks you will be generating zero threat.

If you are having difficulties with no stacks, I'd be interested in seeing your spec and rotation.



first thing. sorry if i do this quote thing wrong. you are most likely correct with the buuf stacks from her. im running with players that are geared in the range of 5.7 to 5.9 gearscore rating. (i hate gearscore but its a handy tool) So im happy to be holding aggro at all, but add the buff and i have no chance. i have given up ICC for the time being. Not because im undergeared for it, but because im undergeared as a tank with the players im with. i will post my armory link when im not at work. cant get to it from here.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby lythac » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:41 am

malnayis wrote:
Galektra wrote:
malnayis wrote:I recently did the same with a pala. Dont even want to know how hard it would have been if i didnt have my guild helping me. Not my first character, but it is my first tank. I have tanked ICC twice now (guild run) the only problem I run into is that most of my guildies are so much better geared than me i have a hard time holding aggro. especially at LDW when i have to taunt off the other tank. we would have wiped were it not for ny insanely geared/skilled GL holydin. not sure what im doing wrong, but i cant hold her no matter what i do.


Are you sure you’re not experiencing the ‘touch of insignificance’ debuff that she does? Each stack decreases your threat by 20%, so at 5 stacks you will be generating zero threat.

If you are having difficulties with no stacks, I'd be interested in seeing your spec and rotation.



first thing. sorry if i do this quote thing wrong. you are most likely correct with the buuf stacks from her. im running with players that are geared in the range of 5.7 to 5.9 gearscore rating. (i hate gearscore but its a handy tool) So im happy to be holding aggro at all, but add the buff and i have no chance. i have given up ICC for the time being. Not because im undergeared for it, but because im undergeared as a tank with the players im with. i will post my armory link when im not at work. cant get to it from here.


For LDW you can bubble off the debuff. As soon as the 2nd debuff lands on you bubble it off. So rather than going 100 > 80 > 60 > 40 > 20 > Other tank taunts you end up going 100 > 80 > 100 (bubble + remove) > 80 > 60 > Other tank taunts. The macro is around somewhere.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Galektra » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:13 am

malnayis wrote:first thing. sorry if i do this quote thing wrong. you are most likely correct with the buuf stacks from her. im running with players that are geared in the range of 5.7 to 5.9 gearscore rating. (i hate gearscore but its a handy tool) So im happy to be holding aggro at all, but add the buff and i have no chance. i have given up ICC for the time being. Not because im undergeared for it, but because im undergeared as a tank with the players im with. i will post my armory link when im not at work. cant get to it from here.


Don’t give up on ICC yet. If you are geared enough to tank it, you should be able to hold threat too (even against 6k DPS). Post back in the Gear Check/Advice thread with your armory, and we will try to help you.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby malnayis » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:27 am

Thats one hell of an idea. i would have never thought of that. Just goes to show that i still have alot to learn about pala tanking tanking, and tanking in general. i really appreciate the help.
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Re: Case Study #1 - Gearing upto ICC10 entry as a new 80 Tank

Postby Harmacy » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:36 pm

lythac wrote:
For LDW you can bubble off the debuff. As soon as the 2nd debuff lands on you bubble it off. So rather than going 100 > 80 > 60 > 40 > 20 > Other tank taunts you end up going 100 > 80 > 100 (bubble + remove) > 80 > 60 > Other tank taunts. The macro is around somewhere.


Just make sure that you taunt before you bubble. If they haven't changed it in the several months since I've raided, your taunt lasts 3 seconds during which time the boss is forced to attack you, bubble or not. So taunt, bubble then click it off ASAP.

Also, back on topic - AWESOME thread. Love the idea, love the info. Really gives some nice perspective on what new tanks face this late in the xpac. I was lucky enough to level and gear up my warrior while the LFD system was still new and people were less geared. Nowadays it must suuuuck.
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