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Dodge rating vs defense rating

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Dodge rating vs defense rating

Postby psk20 » Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:32 pm

Just a quick question.

Beyond 540 defense, and ignoring block rating, what makes dodge rating superior to defense rating?

I've just gotten back into wow after a big break so I'm a bit rusty on these things. I've been told by my guildies that past 540, dodge is just better than defense, hands-down.

But as far as I can see, one point of dodge rating gives about .0222% dodge (before diminishing returns is applied), while one point of defense rating gives approx .0081% miss, parry and dodge (total avoidance equal to .0243% before diminishing returns is applied).

Diminishing returns is applied separately to the three forms of avoidance, correct? And it is applied more aggressively to parry? It seems to follow that the higher your parry and the lower your dodge, the better straight dodge is relative to defense, but the same goes the other way round. Overall, as far as I can tell, they're pretty close, and as a heuristic, when comparing gear, I'd be safe to go by 1 defense rating = 1 dodge rating. I certainly shouldn't be "stacking dodge," considering the fact that each source of avoidance diminishes independently.

Am I missing something?
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Re: Dodge rating vs defense rating

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:02 pm

Dodge Rating provides more avoidance than Defense. The only place Defense pulls ahead is when it adds Block, making it better for unhittability.
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Re: Dodge rating vs defense rating

Postby psk20 » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:10 pm

Thanks for the quick reply, but I was kinda hoping for an explanation of why dodge provides more avoidance all-up. Are my numbers (.0222, .0243) correct? If so, then the effect of diminishing returns would need to be greater overall in the defense case for dodge to give more avoidance.

On the one hand, parry is diminished more than dodge (advantage goes to dodge). On the other hand (am I right in saying this?) the three forms of avoidance are independently diminished, and thus an even spread across three kinds of avoidance will be diminished less (advantage goes to defense).

Surely when your dodge:parry ratio is on the dodge side of optimal, defense provides more avoidance than dodge per point of rating?
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Re: Dodge rating vs defense rating

Postby yappo » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:58 pm

The miss part comes with a REALLY nasty DR.
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Re: Dodge rating vs defense rating

Postby psk20 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:13 pm

ah right.

I think I was assuming that miss and dodge were both diminished about the same, but looks like miss is diminished horribly.

What percentage more avoidance can dodge potentially give, in extreme cases? Say you have quite a bit over 700 defense rating, are past 102.4%, and have zero dodge rating. What kind of difference are we talking here? Will dodge be 1% better than defense? 10%? Or twice as good?

It would be nice to have a rough heuristic to use while comparing upgrades, e.g. "assuming 540+ def and maxed block %, treat dodge and defense rating as approximately as good as each other when comparing gear, but if you want to be really exact, you should prefer whichever rating you have less of (generally dodge)"

I know it's nice to have priorities (e.g. once you get to the defense cap, work on getting your block up, then work on other stats such as dodge or agi and especially stamina), but when one item has 60 defense rating and another has 50 dodge rating, what to do then?

I guess ratingsbuster will help me with this.
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Re: Dodge rating vs defense rating

Postby Barathorn » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:20 am

psk20 wrote:I know it's nice to have priorities (e.g. once you get to the defense cap, work on getting your block up, then work on other stats such as dodge or agi and especially stamina), but when one item has 60 defense rating and another has 50 dodge rating, what to do then?


Gear for what you need for the content you are facing is pretty much the unwritten rule I think psk20 FWIW.
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Re: Dodge rating vs defense rating

Postby theckhd » Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:58 am

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:Dodge Rating provides more avoidance than Defense. The only place Defense pulls ahead is when it adds Block, making it better for unhittability.

This isn't strictly true. Defense can give more avoidance than Dodge. It all depends on your particular gear set-up.

There was a pretty exhaustive thread on it almost a year ago. As you boost your dodge rating, the diminishing returns make it worse, eventually making adding 10 more dodge rating worse than 10 more defense rating for pure avoidance. Similarly with Parry. To really maximize avoidance, you'd want to add them in a particular ratio.

In practice we don't bother, because the differences are very minor. In addition, we don't tend to pick our gear based on which avoidance stat it has. We tend to pick based on stamina, armor, or total avoidance, and generally by upgrading an item with fewer overall stats to one with more overall stats.

In practice, the only place we get to make this sort of choice is with gems (and to a lesser extent enchants). Since dodge and defense are different colors, there's never any conflict on this point. Def/Stam in a yellow socket if you want to match it, Agi/Stam in a red.
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Re: Dodge rating vs defense rating

Postby psk20 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:43 pm

Ah great, thanks for that summary.

Yeah, most of the info I could find on it was in 2008 and 2009, and I wasn't confident that it hadn't changed since then. I had an 80 tankadin shortly after WOTLK release but have been away from the game since then and wasn't sure whether patches since last year had changed things for us.

Cheers for the very practical advice.
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