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4pc Tier 10 for a ICC HMs

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Re: 4pc Tier 10 for a ICC HMs

Postby Chicken » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:55 am

I seem to recall that being a point of discussion around TBC, I seem to recall the eventual conclusion being that anything which ends up at a 2.00 effective swing speed or slower was the optimal choice for Reckoning. Something to do with how using up all the charges doesn't really matter that much since it equals out in the end, so anything faster than 2.00 ended up not really making optimal use of the duration you have to use up the procs once they happen. I'm not sure if wherever I read that took into account the possibility of Reckoning proccing again once it was already up though.
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Re: 4pc Tier 10 for a ICC HMs

Postby Kihra » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:48 pm

theckhd wrote:5) He seems to have a very low opinion of the Legguards of Lost Hope. I'm not sure why.
...
6) In short: Don't bother taking advice from this person. He may be in a more progressed guild, but he doesn't have a strong enough understanding of the underlying paladin mechanics to be giving you gearing advice. Maybe he's great at not standing in fire and holding aggro, but he doesn't make intelligent gearing decisions. You'll get much better advice here, notably because it's backed by numbers and not "I must be right because my guild has killed X."


He doesn't have glyph of SoV. He uses Divine Plea, Salvation and Holy Wrath. I am assuming Holy Wrath is somehow a requirement for him... maybe he likes using it on trash... maybe he needs it for H LK. I'm not sure. However without the Seal of Vengeance Glyph, he needs extra Expertise to get to the soft cap, and so he thinks the pants are good. This same paladin has 2 points in Conviction instead of Pursuit of Justice (along with Reckoning instead of Divine Guardian) so he's very concerned with threat.

Not sure he understands that you can cancelaura Divine Sacrifice from this comment:

"Why do you have DSac? I understand its part of the utility spec but its not part of an end game spec so why do you have it, usually the tank more than any damage that is necessary is a bad thing and I can't think of too many scenarios in ICC where I would end up using it more than a marginal situation at best."

Boggle.
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Re: 4pc Tier 10 for a ICC HMs

Postby exiledknight » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:45 pm

Barathorn wrote:I should also say that I am not a fan of these sort of threads. They always lead to arguments rather than rational discussions when the OP or object of scrutiny starts to post and do nothing to forward the community as a whole. People gear in a certain way for specific reasons and I don't think it is right for us to criticise people based on minimal evidence. Sometimes yes they may be ill informed but other times they may be gearing for a specific situation that we don't know about.

Either way, trying to prove someone wrong on an internet forum is an exercise in futility often taken up by those with far too much time on their hands. We can all be guilty of this so preview before you post :wink: .

Barathorn


This is exactly what I am trying to avoid, I understand people do things different ways, I also understand as we progress through raids at times we realize initial math, assumptions etc are incorrect thus the reason asking the community. I think as Kihra can kinda vouch when this discussion took place he was pretty short with me as far as my asking why things were being done and I was/am looking for more insight among those who have killed LK HM on 25 man or are working on p3. I am trying to avoid being ill informed and looking to cover all basis as maybe even not being the LK tank in p2 any additional insight can help our other tank.
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Re: 4pc Tier 10 for a ICC HMs

Postby theckhd » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:47 pm

Kihra wrote:He doesn't have glyph of SoV. He uses Divine Plea, Salvation and Holy Wrath. I am assuming Holy Wrath is somehow a requirement for him... maybe he likes using it on trash... maybe he needs it for H LK. I'm not sure. However without the Seal of Vengeance Glyph, he needs extra Expertise to get to the soft cap, and so he thinks the pants are good. This same paladin has 2 points in Conviction instead of Pursuit of Justice (along with Reckoning instead of Divine Guardian) so he's very concerned with threat.

But there's no compelling reason to get to the soft cap. It's a threat and DPS boost, that's it. I have trouble believing that the extra DPS/threat from the tier legs is of more benefit than the EH from Pillars for main-tanking HMLK.

And in any event, it's bad advice for a lesser-progressed tank. I'm sure the tanks are dying on Sindragosa because of parry haste, and not low EH or healer fail. Clearly they should gem expertise to hard-cap to combat this effect. :roll:
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Re: 4pc Tier 10 for a ICC HMs

Postby exiledknight » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:17 pm

The glyph of holy wrath can be very helpful if the hunters are a bit slow on their tranqs. I switched to using it tonight and it pretty much eliminated my deaths to shamblings, however it is leaving a chance up to RNG with not being able to use the glyph of righteous defense.
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Re: 4pc Tier 10 for a ICC HMs

Postby Kihra » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:16 pm

theckhd wrote:
Kihra wrote:He doesn't have glyph of SoV. He uses Divine Plea, Salvation and Holy Wrath. I am assuming Holy Wrath is somehow a requirement for him... maybe he likes using it on trash... maybe he needs it for H LK. I'm not sure. However without the Seal of Vengeance Glyph, he needs extra Expertise to get to the soft cap, and so he thinks the pants are good. This same paladin has 2 points in Conviction instead of Pursuit of Justice (along with Reckoning instead of Divine Guardian) so he's very concerned with threat.

But there's no compelling reason to get to the soft cap. It's a threat and DPS boost, that's it. I have trouble believing that the extra DPS/threat from the tier legs is of more benefit than the EH from Pillars for main-tanking HMLK.

And in any event, it's bad advice for a lesser-progressed tank. I'm sure the tanks are dying on Sindragosa because of parry haste, and not low EH or healer fail. Clearly they should gem expertise to hard-cap to combat this effect. :roll:


Yeah, I think he's wrong. I'm not defending him. He is obsessed with threat on the LK fight, and that's biased his choices.
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Re: 4pc Tier 10 for a ICC HMs

Postby Boyfriend » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:31 am

exiledknight wrote:The glyph of holy wrath can be very helpful if the hunters are a bit slow on their tranqs. I switched to using it tonight and it pretty much eliminated my deaths to shamblings, however it is leaving a chance up to RNG with not being able to use the glyph of righteous defense.


I used holy wrath glyph for a long time, and it's indeed very helpful; but after the first couple weeks I ditched it as it turned out to be much worse than RD glyph.

Saving HW/AS for the Frenzy and kiting the shamblers almost full time while both are alive proved to be a much better use of HW, and using it in this way made the glyph meaningless. We also had plenty of wipes to my taunt resisting, while the occasional time that a hunter was slow AD would easily catch it (was maybe 1 out of ~15 tries), while in the case of a taunt resist there was little I could do.

You have to remember that you can completely eliminate any danger of frenzy with HW/AS followed by SW (will cover ~25 seconds, so even if your plague jumps off a frenzied shambler you'll be fine) so it's perfectly fine if an AD procs to an enrage, so at that point HW glyph becomes less important than RD.
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