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When is it advisable to wear avoidance trinkets?

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Re: When is it advisable to wear avoidance trinkets?

Postby blakk » Sat May 22, 2010 7:19 am

I wear dual avoidance for jumping over on lootship so the boss doesn't stack his buff much. It was a rather large issue when I first went in with dps that didn't know what they were doing so great.
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Re: When is it advisable to wear avoidance trinkets?

Postby Ardrhyst » Sat May 22, 2010 8:42 am

blakk wrote:I wear dual avoidance for jumping over on lootship so the boss doesn't stack his buff much. It was a rather large issue when I first went in with dps that didn't know what they were doing so great.


I thought it was established that he stacked his buff regardless of hit result?
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Re: When is it advisable to wear avoidance trinkets?

Postby blakk » Sat May 22, 2010 1:20 pm

I had not read anything on it so just assumed. (never seen really high stacks anyway) read up on the boards and your right. Meh no use for avoidance now save trying to reduce damage from blood queen or something
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Re: When is it advisable to wear avoidance trinkets?

Postby yappo » Sat May 22, 2010 6:12 pm

blakk wrote:I had not read anything on it so just assumed. (never seen really high stacks anyway) read up on the boards and your right. Meh no use for avoidance now save trying to reduce damage from blood queen or something


Possible use is the three upcoming minibosses before the real boss in Ruby Sanctum. Sheer speculation from my side as I have zero contact with the PTR.
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Re: When is it advisable to wear avoidance trinkets?

Postby Boyfriend » Tue May 25, 2010 3:13 am

Avoidance does work on rune of blood procs (the thing he does on tanks where you taunt on the 2nd tank).

I've shown this before but I don't feel like digging up my posts.

I've also elaborated on the theoretical circumstances in which avoidance becomes a better stat than armor, even though the last time this happened was in tbc on brutallus.

The gist is that if short term (avoidable) burst becomes higher than healing + health buffer capabilities, stacking more stamina/armor does not offer any guarantees anymore and hoping to avoid a hit in a multi hit string is just as viable as hoping that the boss will not roll on the top end of his dmg range. In that situation the faster scaling of avoidance would make it superior to armor/stamina.

This has never occured in wotlk, if festergut was dualweilding for ~20k per hit and had an instant attack hitting for 20k (so you'd have ~5 hits in 1 second for a total of 100k damage, if you avoid at least 2 you survive; otherwise no amount of armor/stamina will help and you can't rely on significant heals in a sub 1 sec timeframe).
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Re: When is it advisable to wear avoidance trinkets?

Postby Argali » Tue May 25, 2010 3:34 am

Cataclysm is a good time to wear double avoidance trinkets.
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Re: When is it advisable to wear avoidance trinkets?

Postby pfunkmort » Thu May 27, 2010 2:25 am

Argali wrote:Cataclysm is a good time to wear double avoidance trinkets.


eh...you're more likely going to look to soft cap (in the wotlk sense) block with holy shield up in cataclysm. As there have been rumors about parry (which will be a mitigation stat) becoming a cheaper stat to itemize, you're probably going to want to stack that to get there, rather than dodge anyway (see also the ICC conversation about nerfed avoidance, and its effective worth as a survivability stat). Of course, all that's speculation, and with the massively higher health pools and lower healing output, it's tough to say what's going to be the most survivable on the ground : stacking stam to infinity, or looking for mitigation to make topping you easier. It will all depend on available gear and itemization(safe money is on stam in most progression with all the elementals and magic damage, etc).

on a side note, as everything mitigation is multiplicative, it's going to be interesting to me to see how they deal with armor as a stat and on gear in cataclysm, and just what levels you're going to want to stack it.
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Re: When is it advisable to wear avoidance trinkets?

Postby Argali » Thu May 27, 2010 4:08 am

From all the post on health pools, healer mana, and lowered boss damage comparative to health pools, running out of mana is a valid concern for healers, and stacking avoidance is something you should consider.
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Re: When is it advisable to wear avoidance trinkets?

Postby Boyfriend » Thu May 27, 2010 5:13 am

Weather or not running out of mana for healers matters and weather or not us avoiding more will cause them to heal us less (that's not entirely given, the relationship will likely not be 1:1) and if Blizzard actually is going to devaluate stamina into uselessness is all speculation. They promised to make tank healing less spikey in TBC for wotlk, and we got naxx.

I am not convinced that Blizzard will manage to make heroic bosses challenging without them killing tanks in 3-4 hits, if they do it will mean stamina will be useless ...

Really whatever tanking in cataclysm will be like is total speculation, Blizzard wanting something and what it actually will end up with are totally different things. Encounter design is one of the last things that will happen during development, yet is the most relevant for tanking we will likely not begin to have answers to any tanking questions until the last month of the beta at the earliest, when raid encounters are implemented.
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Re: When is it advisable to wear avoidance trinkets?

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu May 27, 2010 11:24 am

Back in classic we had mods that would cancel heals at .1 sec if the tank was above a certain level of health because of mana management issues. This worked well in concert with avoidance geared tanks ... not that there was that much choice with regards to gearing options, back then.

The rule of thumb over the years has been:
Dying to one-shot? Get some stam.
Dying to healer oom? Get some avoidance.

This methodology is pretty much pointless in WotLK. It seems especially ludicrous when my healer's mana pool was larger than my hp pool.
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