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stam conversion ratio help

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stam conversion ratio help

Postby Gimilatus » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:17 am

sorry for my ignorance as im still trying to comprehend the numbers aspect for gearing and ratios

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =viewtopic

when you get to the stam part (im considered LVL 2 i believe)

armory:http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azgalor&cn=Gimilatus

the topic comes from http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=3&t=23475&rb_v=viewtopic

there is a conversion section that says "Use stamina enhancements with a ratio up to 0.95 to 1.0, depending on your defense."
what am i converting ive been looking and for some reason i must be blatantly missing it or not getting it. can anyone explain this part to me im trying to get my gear where it should be. sorry if its obvious somewhere i haven't seen it. Thanks in advance for responses.
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Re: stam conversion ratio help

Postby Gimilatus » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:02 am

anyone able to help me on this?
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Re: stam conversion ratio help

Postby Digren » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:32 am

You want stamina, yes? But you know that some ways of getting stamina are more efficient than others. Depending on the item slot, gem socket, or socket bonus, some options are very efficient for gaining stamina at the cost of avoidance, while some are much less efficient.

If a given trade gives up 1 point of avoidance for 1 point of stamina, it has a ratio of 1.0. If a given trade gives up 2 points of avoidance for 1 point of stamina, it has a ratio of 2.0 and is less efficient than the first trade. You may still want to do it - if you don't need more avoidance but you want more stamina - but you absolutely should do the cheaper stuff first then the expensive stuff.

Based on your gear, you're just about a level two tank as you describe. So I suggest a stamina stacking ratio around 1.0. I see you're a 450 miner (which has no effect on gear) and an incomplete blacksmith, so your professions don't help you. (Finish blacksmithing! You're wasting stamina by losing sockets.)

Going down the list, at 0.67 ratio you replace def/sta gems with pure sta gems in yellow sockets, where the associated socket bonus is worthless. That's a good trade and you should do it. In your case, your chest has a worthless socket bonus in exactly this situation - you have a yellow socket with a +6 block rating socket bonus. The socket bonus is worthless, so you can switch from a def/sta gem to a sta gem. (Yes, I know you have a hit/sta gem in their now. Since gemming for hit is poor, you need to switch the gem from 15 sta to 30 sta with no loss at all.)

At 0.69 ratio the same is true for red sockets with a worthless bonus, but you don't have any of those.

At 0.71 you should seriously consider getting rid of that defense enchant to cloak. Rather than switch to armor, though, you should first switch it out to agility (which gives you some armor but some avoidance and threat too).

At 0.91 and 0.93 you should replace yellow gems associated with +4 stamina socket bonuses, but you don't have any of those.

At 0.97 you should replace your defense enchant to chest with the health enchant to chest.

And that's it! That's everything at or below 1.0 ratio.

Now, you should review the rest of your gear to make sure you're using the correct avoidance/defense options. At level two, any other gem sockets should have def/sta gems in yellow, agi/sta gems in red. And of course always pure sta gem in blue. You have the wrong gems in your helmet, neck, wrist, and legs. You also use a poor glove enchant; the agility option would be better for you right now.

When you're all done, check to make sure you still have at least 540 defense. With the gems that should be def/sta instead of hit/sta, I'm quite certain you'll still have enough. If you're pretty far over 540 defense and you'd like to stack more stamina, bump up your ratio a little (to 1.11 maybe?) and start replacing more things.

Good luck!
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Re: stam conversion ratio help

Postby Gimilatus » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:39 am

ok so basically the ratios your giving on the left side is more of a (in order guidline to follow till your to the correct ratio on the left in order) it isnt a ratio of actually a stat or is it. i get what your saying to replace and why i dont understand the sheer number part of it on the left of all your topics such as "at 0.67" do this. where is the .67 coming from or am i missing something. i get the how and why of it but not the pure numbers on the left is what im stuck at lol. sorry. thanks for your help and any further help
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Re: stam conversion ratio help

Postby Digren » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:17 am

Gimilatus wrote:ok so basically the ratios your giving on the left side is more of a (in order guidline to follow till your to the correct ratio on the left in order) it isnt a ratio of actually a stat or is it. i get what your saying to replace and why i dont understand the sheer number part of it on the left of all your topics such as "at 0.67" do this. where is the .67 coming from or am i missing something. i get the how and why of it but not the pure numbers on the left is what im stuck at lol. sorry. thanks for your help and any further help

The number is the ratio of avoidance lost to stamina gained. The lower the number, the more efficient it is to switch to stamina. So yes, it is a stat ratio.

The reason it's a calculated number instead of an ordered list is so people can make smart, efficient decisions as to where to stop based on their own gear.
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Re: stam conversion ratio help

Postby Gimilatus » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:49 am

ok for future reference how do i calculate this number. do i use the ratings raw stats or what. how would i go about doing it myself or is there a setup chart. if its explained already is there a link ive searched for it and cannot find it. thank you again and excuse my ignorance im really just trying to learn all i can to be a good tank. thanks so much for the time and replys.

also the higher the number obviously worse choice anything below one i am to take stam for it. am i correct in that, is there any point i should be taking a bigger loss for stamina or anything?
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Re: stam conversion ratio help

Postby Digren » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:56 pm

Gimilatus wrote:ok for future reference how do i calculate this number. do i use the ratings raw stats or what. how would i go about doing it myself or is there a setup chart. if its explained already is there a link ive searched for it and cannot find it. thank you again and excuse my ignorance im really just trying to learn all i can to be a good tank. thanks so much for the time and replys.


For some things the numbers are really simple. For example, +20 def to shield / +18 sta to shield = 20/18 = 1.11.

For some things it's harder. We assume 10 armor = 1 stamina for effective health. Also, agility is about 83% the avoidance of dodge but also has a small amount of armor. Thus, an agi/sta gem matching a socket bonus to a full sta gem losing the bonus can be a more complicated equation.

Would you like to look at my math? See the tiny little text at the end of each row of the conversion table? That's the formula I used for that line (except I used 0.831245934 instead of 0.83 for the math).

Take a line from the table, and paste it into Notepad or something. You'll be able to see the tiny text:
    1.07 : Replace [Enduring Eye of Zul] with [Solid Majestic Zircon] in a yellow socket, if the socket bonus is +6 avoidance rating (10+6)/15=1.07
In the above example, I highlighted the formula in bold. In this case, the numerator is:
    The 10 defense rating you give up when you change the gem, plus
    The 6 avoidance rating (either defense or dodge rating) you give up in the socket bonus.
The denominator is:
    The 15 stamina you gain.
The result is 16/15 or 1.07.

Here's another example:
    1.16 : Replace [Shifting Dreadstone] with [Solid Majestic Zircon] in a red socket, if the socket bonus is +6 avoidance rating (10*1.1*0.83+6)/(30-15-20/10)=1.16
This one is a lot harder. The numerator is:
    The 10 agility you give up, multiplied by Kings, multiplied by the Agi-Dodge conversion, plus
    the 6 avoidance rating from the socket bonus.
The denominator is:
    The 30 stamina you will have, minus
    the 15 stamina you previously had, minus
    the 20 armor you had from the agility, divided by the armor/stamina conversion ratio.
You have to multiply the agility by kings to get the equivalent dodge rating because agility is affected by Kings (and it's assumed you'll always have kings) whereas dodge rating is not affected.

also the higher the number obviously worse choice anything below one i am to take stam for it. am i correct in that, is there any point i should be taking a bigger loss for stamina or anything?


The only time you might want to do this is when you need to stay uncrittable. For example, if at ratio 1.0 you had only 540 defense, but you really really wanted to stack more stamina, you could increase your ratio to 1.11 but skip any changes that required you to give up defense rating. Once you gain more defense from gear, you could go back and pick up the things you skipped.

For any other reason, you're probably just hurting yourself with no benefit.
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Re: stam conversion ratio help

Postby Gimilatus » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:30 am

thank you so much i understand how u got it all now. you guys are genius some of the things you guys do mathematically is insane. thanks a lot this site is amazing for a wealth of info.

Best regards, gim
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Re: stam conversion ratio help

Postby Digren » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:49 am

Theck and Meloree worked this out, not me.
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