Armsman, again

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Re: Armsman, again

Postby Meloree » Fri May 14, 2010 2:16 pm

Barathorn wrote:I agree but 15% more damage at 15% crit is not the same as 15% more damage at 35-45% crit. That is where the problem can be in simplistic terms.


It's exactly the same. DPS isn't scaling better with the buff than you are, they're scaling better with ICC gear. The buff doesn't change anything - any problems you have at 15%, you'll have if you turn the buff off.

If a DPS does 1k damage with an ability that crits at 50%, that ability's average damage is 1500. Add 15% to the base damage, and it'll crit for 2300 (15% more than 2k). The average damage will be 1725, exactly 15% more than with 0%. If your comparable non-critting ability did an average of 1500 threat, regardless of crit rates, post-buff it'll be exactly 1725.
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Re: Armsman, again

Postby Zobel » Fri May 14, 2010 2:33 pm

Meloree wrote:It's exactly the same. DPS isn't scaling better with the buff than you are, they're scaling better with ICC gear. The buff doesn't change anything - any problems you have at 15%, you'll have if you turn the buff off.

The buff can make a difference if they're switching to adds less, or more time dawdling in the fire before moving.
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Re: Armsman, again

Postby Barathorn » Sun May 16, 2010 2:29 am

Zobel wrote:
Meloree wrote:It's exactly the same. DPS isn't scaling better with the buff than you are, they're scaling better with ICC gear. The buff doesn't change anything - any problems you have at 15%, you'll have if you turn the buff off.

The buff can make a difference if they're switching to adds less, or more time dawdling in the fire before moving.


This is what I was trying to say Mel, just not very well. The buff does make a difference. Not as much as gear, but a difference nevertheless.
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Re: Armsman, again

Postby Meloree » Sun May 16, 2010 8:16 am

Barathorn wrote:
Zobel wrote:The buff can make a difference if they're switching to adds less, or more time dawdling in the fire before moving.


This is what I was trying to say Mel, just not very well. The buff does make a difference. Not as much as gear, but a difference nevertheless.


Sure, but are you having threat problems on fights where DPS has time off target killing adds?
Are there fights where the fire has dropped from "move now, I mean it" fire to "finish your cast" fire?

Alternatively, if you're having trouble keeping the mob off your DPS in a sustained fight, you could argue that the buff helps the tank out more. Fight is over sooner, less chance for DPS to pull.
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Re: Armsman, again

Postby Barathorn » Mon May 17, 2010 12:36 am

Meloree wrote:
Barathorn wrote:
Zobel wrote:The buff can make a difference if they're switching to adds less, or more time dawdling in the fire before moving.


This is what I was trying to say Mel, just not very well. The buff does make a difference. Not as much as gear, but a difference nevertheless.


Sure, but are you having threat problems on fights where DPS has time off target killing adds?
Are there fights where the fire has dropped from "move now, I mean it" fire to "finish your cast" fire?

Alternatively, if you're having trouble keeping the mob off your DPS in a sustained fight, you could argue that the buff helps the tank out more. Fight is over sooner, less chance for DPS to pull.


I should just say I do completely agree that the DPS scale better with gear, I am not disputing that. I do however firmly believe that the buff makes this disparity in scaling bigger.

I am not a maths person, I rely on gut feeling so if this isn't the case so be it, I am happy to admit I got it wrong :). It certainly feels like this is the case to me though because as soon as we hit the 15% buff then BANG - DPS with no upgrades in gear started really pushing threat.

In reality what this probably means is that although I 'think' the buff makes the gear disparity bigger it is actually the gear disparity creating the issue and not the buff.

If that makes sense?

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