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Gear Advice - Hit Gems or Def

Get help with your character's gear

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Gear Advice - Hit Gems or Def

Postby Tompson » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:52 am

Hi all I have read all the gear guides on this forum and thank you to all the authors and contributors you have helped me alot.

Now before you say it I know my talents may not be the norm but I have had to change since the patch as the MT warrior is doing alot of threat and DPS on mobs so I have adjusted slightly to be less utility and more threat.

This leads me on to my main question I started gemming for hit as I was way short on that and still am and I had way too much def so I took the hit gem instead of the def one. Now I have got a couple more top ilvl items (I only do upto 10 man raids) i am finding my def dropping still over cap but is it ok to do what i am doing or is there any advice you guys can give me please.

Here is my armoury http://armorylite.com/eu/terokkar/azzrael/

Many thanks in advance.
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Re: Gear Advice - Hit Gems or Def

Postby inthedrops » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:45 am

Wow, you really did gem hit in a lot of places.

I'm not sure your exact situation, but my first reaction was to think that rearranging your entire gear set and sacrificing stamina so that your threat is closer to "some other tank in your guild" as opposed to a REAL NEED seems wrong.

I know it can be frustrating to feel like your threat is bad when compared to other tanks. It can make you feel like a lesser.

But that is not the proper motivation to fix it. Only on fights where it actually causes a problem for the raid should you start worrying about solutions.

I looked over your stats real quick and everything looks good as should concern threat. Lots of strength, enough hit, some expertise, good armor, decent avoidance for 10 mans, etc. But you are sacrificing a lot for that +hit. With your current gear setup, you should not be having any significant threat issues as concerns killing actual bosses.

Do you by any chance have other pieces of gear with hit on it that you could swap in for fights where you think the extra hit matters? Instead of gemming your main gear with +hit?

If you're confident that you are playing optimally, sometimes there is a time where we just have to ignore the kind threat levels other tanks are putting out compared to us and just deal with it by not making it an issue. With the recent change to DK's and Icy Touch for example there is no chance in hell I could ever produce more threat. But it doesn't matter because bosses die. So why sweat it?
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Re: Gear Advice - Hit Gems or Def

Postby Tompson » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:10 am

Firstly thanks for the swift response inthedrops.

Threat was not an issue until recent change to warriors and their mob attack but I have sorted this with the change to my talent tree by dropping the 6 second raid shield and placing them 3 in the extra attack talent (forget name right now) so threat is no longer an issue on mobs and isnt an issue on bosses either. Also I made that change after we did a weekly with non undead and he kept pulling mobs off me, it may have been ok in ICC but I wanted to be sure and think the change is a good one for our raid set up and we dont seem to be missing the raid shield much :)

The main question I suppose was as I have enough Def is it worth while gemming the hit as more hits that land on boss the more damage I will do or am I wasting my time and it is not really gonna make a differance where as the extra mitigation provided by the extra def will make a differance?

Also if it helps I am the OT and the MT is a warrior.
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Re: Gear Advice - Hit Gems or Def

Postby Meyrinn » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:55 am

Tompson wrote:The main question I suppose was as I have enough Def is it worth while gemming the hit as more hits that land on boss the more damage I will do or am I wasting my time and it is not really gonna make a differance where as the extra mitigation provided by the extra def will make a differance?


Personally, I gem for hit cap over defense. Not sure how many yellow sockets you have but lets take 6 for example. Thats 60 hit rating or 60 defense rating. 60 defense rating after diminishing returns is less than 1% avoidance, and probably closer to .5%. This should not make or break your healers for incoming damage. You'll avoid something like 1 out of 200 killing blows and its possible that the next hit kills you anyways. 60 hit rating is almost 2% hit. So it should increase your damage a little, while also making it so 1 out 50 taunts that would have missed now won't. Normal mode missed taunts are not an issue, but heroic mode it causes some issues.

However, your job is to generate more threat than the healers and dps, not your other tank. The other tank needs to play smart and not pull threat back when he's not supposed to be tanking.
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Re: Gear Advice - Hit Gems or Def

Postby Digren » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:22 am

You don't need hit to tank. Defense over the minimum is still great avoidance, or you can switch to stamina.

Your problem isn't threat. Your problem is your tank teammate. It sounds like he has an "I'm the one with threat - I get to tank" mentality. Is it his job to tank a mob or is it yours? If it's his, then your job is to ride high enough to be number two, but no higher. Back when my threat was insane and our bear/wars/DK couldn't keep up, that meant I had to drop spells from my rotation to stay below them, because it was their job to tank (not mine). When the fight was threat intensive, then we arranged roles so it was my job to tank, and I could go all out.

Now that paladin threat is relatively lower, it's your warrior friend's job to show you the same courtesy. When it matters, make sure it's clear who tanks what. We assign a "main tank" for every fight - even things like Marrogar where a free-for-all is just as good - because it sets this hierarchy.

If he's unable or unwilling to show you that courtesy, get your raid or tank lead to show it to him. If you don't have one and he keeps doing it on bosses that you are assigned to tank, well, taunt off him and HoProt him and HoSalv him and push his threat back down.

(What does he do on Saurfang? Keep going all out when he has the debuff until he takes threat back and wipes your raid?)

Build a threat set if you want, and wear it when appropriate. But for goodness' sake, don't gimp your survivability set with all that hit. The thing that will get you benched is the impression that you are less able to survive an encounter than the warrior.
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Re: Gear Advice - Hit Gems or Def

Postby chinoquezada » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:11 pm

Digren wrote:Build a threat set if you want, and wear it when appropriate. But for goodness' sake, don't gimp your survivability set with all that hit. The thing that will get you benched is the impression that you are less able to survive an encounter than the warrior.


QFT.

Also a big suggestion is to get 2pc T10 Head and Shoulders (in your particular case). They are better for your survivability and provide increased tps.
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