Heroic Belt of Broken Bones vs Verdigris Chain Belt

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Heroic Belt of Broken Bones vs Verdigris Chain Belt

Postby Dicedagon » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:15 am

I know I'm going to be faced with this decision soon, and I've waffled on which direction to go.

Verdigris Chain Belt
+593 Armor

vs

277 Belt of Broken bones
23 Sta
16 Str
63 Dodge
8 Parry

The sockets and socket bonuses are identical.

I'm leaning towards the 277 belt because of the combined minor improvements to stam, threat, and avoidance.

I'm sure I'll end up with the 277 belt eventually, but I can't decide if I should rush to make the change.

FWIW, here's my armory.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... =Dicedagon

I typically have two stam trinkets equipped and will probably continue that until the 264 Organ drops.

What are people's thoughts?
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Re: Heroic Belt of Broken Bones vs Verdigris Chain Belt

Postby chinoquezada » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:56 am

Depends on the situation, but the vast majority of the time Verdigris Chain Belt is better for you.
I personally only use 277 Belt of Broken Bones for tanking Keleseth.
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Re: Heroic Belt of Broken Bones vs Verdigris Chain Belt

Postby Meloree » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:58 am

I don't love it. Sooner or later I'll probably grab one, just for option-gear, but I'm really not sold on the 277 belt.
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Re: Heroic Belt of Broken Bones vs Verdigris Chain Belt

Postby cds4850 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:05 pm

Dicedagon wrote:Verdigris Chain Belt
+593 Armor

vs

277 Belt of Broken bones
23 Sta
16 Str
63 Dodge
8 Parry

Going with the 10:1 ratio for armor:stamina, you can obviously see the effective health gain from the frost emblem belt. Assuming you're gearing for an encounter with any respectable amount of physical damage, the damage reduction from the bonus armor trumps that of the additional avoidance of the 277. Extra dodge/parry is nice, but I do not see any progression tanks gearing for Brutallus avoidance levels. I'm passing this to offspec tanks who need to fill in or tank 10man teams.
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Re: Heroic Belt of Broken Bones vs Verdigris Chain Belt

Postby Dicedagon » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:52 am

Thanks for you feedback.

I'll probably eventually get one, but I'll stick with Verdigris for most physical fights.
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Re: Heroic Belt of Broken Bones vs Verdigris Chain Belt

Postby inthedrops » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:25 pm

I don't feel as strongly about the badge belt as the others so far.

The difference in armor between the two belts is not 594. It's actually 585 due to the 10% talent not affecting the 658 bonus armor from the belt.

Anyway, if you assume 38000 raid buffed armor with the 277 belt and are getting hit for 30k then...the original hit without armor would be around 98522.
98522 with 69.55% DR = 30000 hit

If you swap for the 264 badge belt then your armor increases to 38585 which gives 69.875% DR (an increase of 0.325% DR):
98522 with 69.875 DR = 29680 hit.

So you would decrease the hits by about 320 using the 264 badge belt.

Let's assume you have 34000 armor instead of 38000:
98522 with 67.147% DR = 32367 hit

With the 264 badge belt:
98522 with 67.522% DR = 31998 hit

So you would decrease the hits by about 369 (as opposed to 320 above with 4k more armor).

The point I'm trying to make is that the more armor you have the less clear it is which is better.

Do you want to trade (before applying any buffs) a little extra threat, ~11 BV (yes it's minuscule but it's there), ~1% avoidance, and 16 stamina for the ability to reduce all threatening melee attacks by ~350? Not so clear imho!

I'm not saying I have a strong opinion one way or the other. And I'm certainly not arguing for the 277 heroic belt. But I don't think it should be dismissed so easily. With the armor belt and 30k+ swings coming in every 1 second, you'd be doing quite well after 2 seconds if both hits connected. As you'd already have reduced your incoming damage by ~700. Considering we're all probably riding in the 62-65k buffed ranged this is very significant so it is REALLY good. I just don't think it overshadows the other belt.

Disclaimer: I AM a fan of the 277 belt, I use it much of the time.
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Re: Heroic Belt of Broken Bones vs Verdigris Chain Belt

Postby Meloree » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:07 pm

inthedrops wrote:I don't feel as strongly about the badge belt as the others so far.

...
So you would decrease the hits by about 320 using the 264 badge belt.

...
So you would decrease the hits by about 369 (as opposed to 320 above with 4k more armor).

The point I'm trying to make is that the more armor you have the less clear it is which is better.

Do you want to trade (before applying any buffs) a little extra threat, ~11 BV (yes it's minuscule but it's there), ~1% avoidance, and 16 stamina for the ability to reduce all threatening melee attacks by ~350? Not so clear imho!


Wild. I read that as a totally and completely clear victory for the armor belt. The damage saved is more than the health you'ld otherwise have, it leads to smaller healing gaps and healing burdens on hard hitters. The only situation in which you might prefer the 277 belt is if that 16 stam (and potentially other trades) would put you over some threshold for magic (non-mitigated) burst. It's not so clear that that situation exists - excepting perhaps Heroic LK25, but you should be running cooldowns for Soul Reaper anyway.
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Re: Heroic Belt of Broken Bones vs Verdigris Chain Belt

Postby inthedrops » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:30 am

Meloree wrote:Wild. I read that as a totally and completely clear victory for the armor belt.


Quite true! But the opposite holds as well. If it's not near any dangerous threshold then I like the heroic belt for the 1% avoidance. That 10% buff we got recently helps in this regard.
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Re: Heroic Belt of Broken Bones vs Verdigris Chain Belt

Postby Meloree » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:47 am

inthedrops wrote:
Meloree wrote:Wild. I read that as a totally and completely clear victory for the armor belt.


Quite true! But the opposite holds as well. If it's not near any dangerous threshold then I like the heroic belt for the 1% avoidance. That 10% buff we got recently helps in this regard.


So, I should read that as "I like Belt of Broken Bones for farming in, because it's slightly more threat"? Makes sense to me. Hell, I wear the Marrowgar pants for farming in now, I've got no right to complain.
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Re: Heroic Belt of Broken Bones vs Verdigris Chain Belt

Postby inthedrops » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:42 am

The picture I painted and the numbers I chose make the armor belt look as good as it can. So that's the best case scenario for when to equip it. I understand that we're all about EH these days, but that doesn't mean I completely dismiss the value of avoidance.

There aren't a lot of places where you can make this kind of trade for 1% avoidance. Usually it costs a heck of a lot more EH (but usually by way of stamina).

I'm simply saying in the numbers I chose it looks real good. But it won't always. I'm ~65k raid buffed in ICC. I'll take the extra avoidance right now on most of the fights. I'd probably wear the armor belt more if my health was less than ~62. That's what I mean about that 10% buff.
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Re: Heroic Belt of Broken Bones vs Verdigris Chain Belt

Postby Boyfriend » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:19 am

I am very heavily biased against avoidance nowadays in ICC, used to use my avoidance set alot back in Ulduar and enjoyed it alot but with the -20% radiance, being very high in diminishing returns just from normal gear and total still being below 50% avoidance (meaning more avoidance will actually reduce the predictability while reducing damage taken).

I mean yes it probably makes it easier to heal me but after a certain point I don't see that as my job anymore, we're not going to take 4 healers to festergut because it takes time for people to respec/be switched and I would not want to rely on avoidance and say "I now have 50% avoidance you can drop another healer" especially when it's that unpredictable.

I'd much rather switch in gear that does more dps, I can switch gearset before a boss with a button and add a bit more damage the healers are the same anyway.
I tank all bosses but sindragosa and LK in my threat gear now, even if I end up dying because a healer dc's I don't want to rely on 4% more avoidance to survive it. (Which is all you'll get from a full avoidance set due to the significant pressure of diminishing returns we now have)
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