Last Word on Last Word

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Last Word on Last Word

Postby kaanman36 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:52 am

So, what is the communities' opinion on Last Word

It seems, based on the comments over at wowhead, that the uptime on the proc is pretty close to 100%.

Is it a decent tanking weapon, or little more than a threat and heroics weapon? Is it an upgrade, sidegrade, or downgrade from Bonebreaker Scepter
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Re: Last Word on Last Word

Postby kysu » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:03 am

Same effect as divinity and its a good threat weapon. So if you like the effects of divinity then it might be for you.
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Re: Last Word on Last Word

Postby hoho » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:15 am

Wasn't there a loooong dedicated thread for that weapon already?

It should be one of the best threat weapons and if you have loads of hots on you it also increases healing taken by not-insignificant amount. The proc isn't that good on direct heals though
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Re: Last Word on Last Word

Postby theckhd » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:32 am

It's the highest-threat tanking weapon available, and a reasonable choice for your all-around set. I use it most of the time, swapping out to Troggbane once in a while if I need defense or avoidance.

For straight-up EH, Crusader's Glory is still the strongest. However, since trickle-down deaths are far more common in ICC than in previous tiers, the 300 spellpower Last Word gives each of your healers can often outweigh the extra armor.

Example: If you have 38k armor, then another 522 armor is about 0.29% mitigation (69.84% vs 69.55%), or 1% relative mitigation (as you'd see it in the combat log). Let's say you have 60k HP, and take 60k damage without a heal. Now equip CG and add 522 armor. What you'll see in your combat log is that the extra armor dropped the 60k damage to 59.4k (about 1% less). In other words, the armor prevented 600 damage.

Now, consider what happens with healing. Let's say you get 20k worth of heals (a conservative estimate), so it takes 80k damage to kill you. The armor prevents 1% of that, or 800 damage. Assume your healers have around 3k spellpower, so the LW buff increases their spellpower by 10%. If you assume that the average spellpower coefficient for a healing spell is 1, that turns 20k healing into 22k healing, for a difference of 2k. Even if you take a pessimistic view and use 0.5 for the spellpower coefficient, it's 1k healing. But I suspect the average is actually closer to 1 than 0.5.

The only case where the armor is strictly superior is a situation where you get 15k heals or less for a 0.5 coefficient, or 7k heals for a 1.0 coefficient. If you have any HoTs at all, this is a fairly reasonable target (and iirc it affects your JoLight procs as well).

So you trade 2 stamina, 522 armor, and a bit of avoidance for a huge amount of threat (1.8 speed weapon with 100+ STR) and 300 SP for every healer that heals you.
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Re: Last Word on Last Word

Postby theckhd » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:32 am

hoho wrote:The proc isn't that good on direct heals though

Why wouldn't the proc be good on direct heals? They generally have a higher spellpower coefficient than HoTs, so it's more effective on them. Holy Light, for example, has a 1.66 coefficient, so it's +500 to every Holy Light.
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Re: Last Word on Last Word

Postby kaanman36 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:49 am

Thanks for all of the replies.
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Re: Last Word on Last Word

Postby hoho » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:03 am

theckhd wrote:
hoho wrote:The proc isn't that good on direct heals though

Why wouldn't the proc be good on direct heals?
I remember it giving flat 300 healing to all spells. E.g 10k heal would heal for 10.3k, 1k for 1.3k etc and each hot would get +300 for each tick. Though I wouldn't be surprised if I completely misunderstood that :)
theckhd wrote:They generally have a higher spellpower coefficient than HoTs, so it's more effective on them.
Are you sure? From what I remember my resto druid has extremely high coefficents on most of it's hots, definitely more than that 1.66. Also I know that fheal has pretty awful scaling.
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Re: Last Word on Last Word

Postby kaanman36 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:58 am

hoho wrote:Are you sure? From what I remember my resto druid has extremely high coefficents on most of it's hots, definitely more than that 1.66. Also I know that fheal has pretty awful scaling.


For an example, here are the spellpower coefficients for druid healing spells as of 3.3.0:
(taken from http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_power_coefficients)

Healing Touch
161.14% (201.14% with Empowered Touch)

LifebloomDH
38.57%

LifebloomHoT
6.53% (per tick) (7.84% with Empowered Rejuvenation)

Rejuvenation
37.6% (per tick)(45.12% with Empowered Rejuvenation)

RegrowthDH
30%

RegrowthHoT
18.78% (per tick)(22.54% with Empowered Rejuvenation)

Swiftmend (Rejuvenation)
No direct benefit from spellpower

Swiftmend (Regrowth)
No direct benefit from spellpower

Tranquility
107.43% (per tick) (128.92% with Empowered Rejuvenation)

Wild Growth
11.51% (per tick) (13.82% with Empowered Rejuvenation)

Nourish
80.57% (100.57% with Empowered Touch)


So, as you can see, Healing Touch is the only Druid spell that compares (and that is generally only used in emergency situations with Nature's Swiftness).
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Re: Last Word on Last Word

Postby silkforcalde » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:57 pm

I use it and I love it. Highly recommend any pally / warrior tank pick it up asap.
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Re: Last Word on Last Word

Postby inthedrops » Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:05 am

Hmm. I always skipped the regular version of this weapon. But a few days ago I went ahead and grabbed the heroic version. The extra stam via the gem slot, dps, and weapon speed made me finally decide that I would actually use it. I also have and use the LK weapon so it isn't exactly an "always equip" upgrade. But it's nice to have right now for a few situations. I'll have to start actually looking at how it boosts healing. I was always more interested in the threat aspects.
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Re: Last Word on Last Word

Postby hoho » Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:27 am

kaanman36 wrote:For an example, here are the spellpower coefficients for druid healing spells as of 3.3.0:
(taken from http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_power_coefficients)
...

Rejuvenation
37.6% (per tick)(45.12% with Empowered Rejuvenation)
..

So, as you can see, Healing Touch is the only Druid spell that compares (and that is generally only used in emergency situations with Nature's Swiftness).
Emphasis mine. Rejuv has 5 ticks thus scaling for the whole spell becomes 5 times higher or ~225.6%.
[edit]
broken quote :s
Last edited by hoho on Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Last Word on Last Word

Postby Awyndel » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:37 am

Like theck said, with the whole icc armor/divinity thing going on, the +healing is very nice to have. The best thing is that in this case it actually gives you threat, instead of having divinity's high costs. The stamina is comparable to other weapons, and the avoidance is not missed much. So it's a very balanced choice imo.

The + healing bonus does scale, its not flat. And on holy light it can be very powerfull, especially if they use some other abilities too.
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Re: Last Word on Last Word

Postby theckhd » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:46 am

hoho wrote:I remember it giving flat 300 healing to all spells. E.g 10k heal would heal for 10.3k, 1k for 1.3k etc and each hot would get +300 for each tick. Though I wouldn't be surprised if I completely misunderstood that :)


In one of the other Last Word threads (or maybe it was the MATLAB one, I forget) someone was testing how it worked. They definitely saw +500 on a holy light compared to +300 or so on a FoL, or something like that, which was consistent with it being treated as SP rather than a flat +heal.

I'll try and remember to test it with a holy paladin this evening just to confirm though.
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Re: Last Word on Last Word

Postby Awyndel » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:12 am

theckhd wrote:
hoho wrote:I remember it giving flat 300 healing to all spells. E.g 10k heal would heal for 10.3k, 1k for 1.3k etc and each hot would get +300 for each tick. Though I wouldn't be surprised if I completely misunderstood that :)


In one of the other Last Word threads (or maybe it was the MATLAB one, I forget) someone was testing how it worked. They definitely saw +500 on a holy light compared to +300 or so on a FoL, or something like that, which was consistent with it being treated as SP rather than a flat +heal.

I'll try and remember to test it with a holy paladin this evening just to confirm though.


Awyndel wrote:I did some testing with holy light, chain heal and rejuv. Keep in mind these where only small parses, and I'm prolly not an expert in creating controlled environments.

For holy light it was about 500 more healing ( maybe more ) , for chainheal about 350, and for rejuv about 200. Not sure if this is the equivalent of 300 sp or not, or to how many divinity points this relates.

Well considering the new model for armor I think extra healing can be a bit stronger in some cases. I certainly wouldn't give up crusade's dps for it at this point, but I don't mind giving up some avoidance stats on a weapon. Especially considering this is the highest dps weapon out there anyway.
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Re: Last Word on Last Word

Postby caerdydd » Sun May 02, 2010 6:48 pm

Got the heroic one last night.
I think I gonna switch between this one and the mace on LK depending on the encounter.
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